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Latin Swing?

Discussion in 'Jazz Technique [DB]' started by glocke1, Nov 6, 2018.


  1. glocke1

    glocke1

    Apr 30, 2002
    PA
    Need some help trying to figure out the difference between "normal" swing and latin swing..Working on "Bye-Ya" and while i did listen to the original Monk recording Im really not picking up the latin part other than whats going on in the A section...

    PDF of something would probably be helpful
     
  2. eJake

    eJake

    May 22, 2011
    New Orleans
    I have never heard of latin swing (maybe just me, not really that into jazz) traditionally swing music swings the 8th notes but latin music is very straight (not swung).

    EDIT: there are a ton of songs with a "latin" A section and a "swing" bridge or vice versa.
     
  3. glocke1

    glocke1

    Apr 30, 2002
    PA
    Yeah the chart I have for that tune says Latin swing.

    Sounds like In The A section the bass is just playing the melody though?
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  4. eJake

    eJake

    May 22, 2011
    New Orleans
    Post a link?
     
  5. glocke1

    glocke1

    Apr 30, 2002
    PA
    the chart or the tune?

    this is the tune.

     
  6. Seanto

    Seanto

    Dec 29, 2005
    USA
    If i saw "latin swing" i would likely just interpret it as "latin." In a sight reading situation, i would look to the director or weight it against what the other players are doing. Although in the recording above, i don't hear much of any latin. Doesn't mean the chart isn't a reinterpretation of the tune as many big band charts can be.

    Edit: I suppose the intro does have a semi latin pattern going on, but still swingy at the same time. Likely the chart creators best attempt to explain what is going on there.
     
  7. Sean Riddle

    Sean Riddle Supporting Member

    Aug 11, 2013
    Ventura, California
    Some people like to play a Latin-ish 3 3 2 groove on the A section and walk on the B section. There’s some very specific hits though that John Ore plays that mimic what Monk is playing in his left hand. After the head though walk during the solos, alla the Monk recording.
    What chart are you using? If it’s from the book Steve Cardenas made all the info you need for the bass part in the A section should be there as all his transcriptions in that book are super thorough. Otherwise I personally prefer learning Monk tunes by ear as that was the way Monk taught his music and for me helps me understand his music a lot better.
     
    oliebrice likes this.
  8. Tom Lane

    Tom Lane Gold Supporting Member

    A teacher explained it this way to me, and I've found it to be generally true. "Latin Swing" or better, "Swinging Latin" is a style that developed in the 50s as swing players started exploring adding Latin influences into their compositions. It became a hybrid style in which the swing musicians straightened their eighth notes a bit but still swung. The best example I can think of is Horace Silver's Song for My Father. The bass line is nothing like a bossa nova as played in Brazil, but has been "Westernized"? "Northed?"

    Bye-Ya sounds like swinging latin to me; the bass line through the A-section is roughly mimicking a Latin line, but I hear the band still slightly swinging their 8ths.
     
    lurk, Carl Hillman and Groove Doctor like this.
  9. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

    Dec 13, 1999
    NYC
    Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
    Does it say Latin swing or Latin/Swing?
     
    elgecko likes this.
  10. Carl Hillman

    Carl Hillman

    Jan 1, 2010
    I imagine "latin swing" refers to this. Art Blakey could play in the cracks between straight 8th and swing*...it is a latin pattern he's playing, but it's not completely straight.



    *Elvin Jones is another drummer who can make latin swing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
    lurk and tinyd like this.
  11. statsc

    statsc Supporting Member

    Apr 23, 2010
    Burlington, VT
    Latin feel on the A sections of the head; swing feel on the B; swing on the solos. Don’t over- think!
     
  12. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

    Dec 13, 1999
    NYC
    Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
    According to Reggie Workman, that "Blakey Latin" feel came about from some of the Messengers trying to explain to Bu what a bossa nova feel was supposed to sound like........
     
    Carl Hillman and lurk like this.
  13. eJake

    eJake

    May 22, 2011
    New Orleans
    Im with @Seanto that this recording does not have many elements of "latin" feels.

    The video that @Carl Hillman does have elements of the cascara rhythm in the Blakey's right hand

    The term "latin" in the jazz world can mean so many things but usually I take it to point toward the beginning with Cuban percussionist Chano Pozo's collaboration with Dizzy Gillespie. As I said in post #2 I am not much of a jazz guy. Most of this knowledge comes from being a Caribbean music freak.
     
  14. lurk

    lurk

    Dec 2, 2009
    I prefer the term"Latino" for these jazz grooves that don't really conform to any authentic dance accent pattern, but do have sort of a South of the border feel. A lot of drummers like Blakey or Billie Higgens or Kenny Clarke were so steeped in swing that it leaked into the textures that most guys today play as even eighths. I kinda like that slightly swung feel.
     
  15. Here's another example. I'm not sure Oscar and the fellas straightened out their 8th notes at all. Sounds and feels pretty amazing to me, though.

     
  16. Here's a different approach. The band plays straight latin, but Charlie Parker slightly swings his 8ths on the head, and even more during the solos. Still, it doesn't sound strained or weird. Guess you had to be Charlie to pull it off that well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
    Tom Lane likes this.
  17. glocke1

    glocke1

    Apr 30, 2002
    PA
    It says "Latin Swing"
     
  18. glocke1

    glocke1

    Apr 30, 2002
    PA

    yeah, i guess thats what im doing
     
  19. redwookie

    redwookie Supporting Member

    Dec 28, 2005
    Chicago
    Here’s one of my favorite versions of Perdido by Bebo Valdez and Chucho Valdez. Nice rhumba-ish feel with a subtle clave and swings all night. ‘Latin Swing’ fits:



    I agree with a couple earlier comments. I think the B section of 'Bye-Ya' is straight swing and throws away that nice 1-2-3 1-2 syncopation of the A sections.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  20. redwookie

    redwookie Supporting Member

    Dec 28, 2005
    Chicago
    Caravan, composed by the great Juan Tizol and playing it with D Ellington


    At 2:50, check out the B section going full swing with no discernible clave.
     
    Seanto likes this.

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