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LDS 3-way 1x8 initial experience

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Adrian Cho, Sep 2, 2005.


  1. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    As it turned out, the 1x8 in the photo on the LDS site is mine. When I saw it on the site with the blue baffle, I had a bad feeling about things. Then when I saw the package was 38 lbs on the FedEx site, I was a little worried. I weighed the package when I got it - sure enough it was 38 lbs. I took it home hoping that there was some heavy packaging in the box - perhaps a wooden crate.

    So the first disappointment was the blue baffle - I ordered black. Second thing is the attenuator is on the side and not on the back like I asked. Third thing is there is no cart - heck I'm not even sure now if they charged me for it but I sure as heck ordered it. Fourth thing is I was trying to work out how the compartment on top added 9 lbs to the weight because now at 34 lbs, it's even heavier than the B-1 and the idea of the sub-30 lb rig is definitely blown. At this stage I was not in a good mood and I was figuring that even if I sent it back and got my money back, I just incurred USD 120 in freight charges plus another CAD 45 in duties and taxes.

    So naturally I called Don. The first thing he did was to check the order and sure enough a lot of the things I spoke to him about multiple times (such as the cart) as well as with the guy who took my original order, were simply not noted down. To get to the point, he was very apologetic and offered to take it back and build another one and split the shipping on the return and on the new one (which is still more money for me) and he also offered to send the cart free of charge.

    Apparently I just got really unlucky although this could also be the result of them coping with growing demand. My recommendation is that especially if you choose some options that are not standard, double-check and triple-check your order with LDS and make sure it is correct before they build and before they send the cab to you.

    Although I spent about four hours playing through the cab and comparing it to the B-1 and using them both together, I'm not going to post about that just yet as I want to do a lot more testing and try the cabs in various situations. The only thing I will say is that the LDS has a lot of top end (arguably too much) but it can cope with the bottom end just fine too. Even with the tweeter fully attenuated (-2 dB) I have to roll of the Focus brite control completely and the treble almost completely on the channel with the AMT otherwise the hiss and the various resonances and finger noise picked up by the mic are horrible. I've never had to do that before.
     
  2. Tbeers

    Tbeers

    Mar 27, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    Ouch.

    Well they goofed on one part of my cab... I wanted it made as a vertical array and it arrived horizontal. But then I played through it and I was like... pfff who cares what the thing looks like, this sound is great.

    The treble is going to seem extreme with the neo drivers. I dunno... I wish you had a better experience with it. Personally I like the sound so far.
     
  3. Freddels

    Freddels Musical Anarchist

    Apr 7, 2005
    Sutton, MA
    Well it's a custom shop and sooner or later an order or two might not be done to specs. Overall, I have heard nothing but good about LDS and these cabs. He is willing to make things right with you. The extra weight of the added compartment was not foreseen but that doesn't appear to be Don's fault, it was ordered.
     
  4. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    Well the baffle colour is no big deal. I hate any gear that draws attention but fortunately the blue is not that obvious especially in dim lighting. The attentuator placement no big deal - apparently I'm always going to have it fully attenuated anyway. The cart, well Don will have to send it me and I'll have to mount it myself. The weight of the cabinet - I certainly don't blame Don for that although it was a shock and Don sounded surprised too when I told him how much it weighed. It was an experiment - I knew that.
     
  5. Tbeers

    Tbeers

    Mar 27, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    To be honest, I don't know why he puts a tweeter in these things. It's gratuitous...
     
  6. Freddels

    Freddels Musical Anarchist

    Apr 7, 2005
    Sutton, MA
    Wouldn't that make it a 2-way instead of a 3-way?
     
  7. Tbeers

    Tbeers

    Mar 27, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    What would be so wrong with that? The neo 5 more than takes care of business in the high end.
     
  8. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    Yes it would make it a 2-way. Like Tombowlus, I haven't decided yet whether all the top end is natural or exaggerated but I tend to think it is the latter. It seems to work well (flat EQ) with the Vektor which like most pickups, is more bass-y than the AMT. With flat EQ on the AMT channel, I was getting howling feedback with the AMT at lower volume levels than I ever have before. I usually never muck with the EQ but I absolutely have to make adjustments in this case and that's with the tweeter fully attenuated too.
     
  9. Freddels

    Freddels Musical Anarchist

    Apr 7, 2005
    Sutton, MA
    Nothing. But it's not gratuitous, it's what you ordered (a 3-way).
     
  10. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    Well you have to remember that for many of us ordering these cabs - we have not had a chance to hear them. We can only go by the described experiences of others. Additionally, the bass playing community is helping LDS evolve their offerings. Yes it's what Tbeers (and I and others) ordered. We're just talking about whether it really is needed.
     
  11. Freddels

    Freddels Musical Anarchist

    Apr 7, 2005
    Sutton, MA
    I fully understand that. In fact, many are purchasing these based upon the reviews by TomBowlus and MacMrkt. In fact, I almost ordered a 1x8 based upon their initial reviews but then when they wrote more about the 2x8 I was more interested in that (except for the weight). I'm going to wait until the weight can come down a bit.
     
  12. drurb

    drurb Oracle, Ancient Order of Rass Hattur; Mem. #1, EPC

    Apr 17, 2004
    Well, I'm following this thread with great interest, given the thread I started on the best rig for under $1000. Based on previous reviews, I was just about sold on the LDS 1X8. Adrian's comments about the high-end are pretty souring. I hate excessive string/fingerboard noise. IMO, that's not proper amplification of a bass.

    Okay guys, how would you rate a Wizzy 112 against the LDS 1X8? I'm planning to use a Clarus Series III.
     
  13. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    Well you have to understand that this is through the AMT. The Vektor sounds great with it. The whole thing however was a shock to me because the AMT is the one piece of equipment I've always relied on. It was the only piece of gear I retained in my recent upgrade and I've always used it with flat EQ through every system and as kind of a reference for testing and comparing other gear. Additionally, through the LDS, as I increase volume with a mix of the pickup and mic, I have to reduce the proportion of mic in the signal to maintain a natural sound. That's something I've not had to do before either.
     
  14. Tbeers

    Tbeers

    Mar 27, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    You might as well wait for the new EA 2x8. It seems like John Dong is being really picky about the neo 8" drivers. And that worries me... why is it good enough for LDS but not good enough for EA?

    I won't be surprised when the NM-208 comes out and blows LDS out of the water.
     
  15. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    Adrian,

    With my VL108's and 208's, I always run the mic channel on the Focus with treble and bright completely off. Come to think of it, I do that on the Full Circle channel as well. This is one reason I'm excited about the new series III AI stuff - seems they've done away with the highest EQ band altogether and added a second hi pass filter for the mic channel. For me, that would mean one less knob to turn all the way down.

    Also, I don't think the tweeters on the VL series cabs have much (if any) relevance for DB players...seems like more of a slab thing. Anyway, let us know what your impressions are once you get the sucker out on a gig. I've been surprised by the gig performance of pieces of gear before, in both directions. For example, the PUB sounded great at home, but never quite had enough in real life on the gig. And the 108 sounded thin at home, but cuts beautifully on low volume gigs.
     
  16. Freddels

    Freddels Musical Anarchist

    Apr 7, 2005
    Sutton, MA
    Do a search for Wizzy and you'll find some info. I had asked the same question and got responses from Macmrkt and Tombowlus. I went with the Wizzy.
     
  17. flatback

    flatback

    May 6, 2004
    Bolinas Ca
    While I like the idea of a box to hold everything (amp etc) it seemed to me that it was going to add a lot of weight. I dont mind schelping everything in a bag and then setting it on top.(theres always super velcro which is a lot lighter then a plywood box) My 1x8 is in transit. At the last minute I ordered a cart because Don said that they come off when you get to the gig and the crt I use now will be overkill for my new micro rig. I had a long discussion with Don about making it a 2 way. I just couldn't see the need for a 3 way but defered to Don because it was already designed and it seemed like thats what he was making. Oh well I'll just turn it off. I ordered a pole mount too and I'm really hoping that came thru in the order. I'd rather carry a PA stand and have the Monitor exactly where I want it every time rather then propping it on chairs or whatever. I cant get into having it on the ground, I just can't hear it down there. Don was telling me he's going to make a new one with a 10" or 12" sub with a pole and then the 1x8 on top and on a swivel so the sub and 1x8 can face different directions. Nice idea...but I'll stick with the 1x8 for now.
     
  18. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Once again, I have to mention that I'm not an engineer or acoustician.
    That said, the EA cabs are different on the inside because of that Transmission Line design vs the LDS cabs that are built using Thiel Parameters, but are not Transmission Line. IMHO that's a significant difference. EA's stuff may be "power hungry" but it could also be the reason that their more DB friendly. From what I know about LDS, Don's headed in that direction, real close in fact. ( not Transmission Line as far as I know) but he's not quite their yet.

    Ric
     
  19. macmrkt

    macmrkt Banned

    Dec 4, 2002
    AGREED. That's what I learned too.
    I say break-in time is 6 hours at moderate BG volumes and maybe 20 hours for low volume DB. Sound will be thin and bright during this period.

    In amp/speakers, accuracy is my bottom line, even if that means unmasking sounds that are really there, but I don't really want to hear. In these instances, I'll have to vary my playing or DB setup...different right hand attack, altered string height or string brands.

    I try to interpolate the collective experiences of others to try to draw conclusions for myself. Each of our playing styles and desired sounds are different. What's amazing is how often I do get a fairly accurate opinion even with all these variables. Before choosing LDS, I had as many as six cabinets together for simultaneous comparisons, Accugroove, EA VL's, Wizzy, LDS's, Phil Jones, Acme, Acoustic Image...before I was able to decide which version of 'accuracy' was right for me. As Chris says, I had to check them with a band in addition to solo use for most of these comparisons. In every case, I took LDS, because I want to hear whatever is there and if I have adjust accordingly, so be it. Your results may vary.
     
  20. macmrkt

    macmrkt Banned

    Dec 4, 2002
    As I know you know, no one single spec or design parameter makes one product superior to another (although the advertising would like to make you believe otherwise!) I really expected the VL208 to be the ultimate for DB. And if it wasn't for the LDS 2x8, that's what I'd be playing. However, I'll be among the first in line to buy the NM208 to and just about anything else the wizards at EA cook up...