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LDS verticle 1x15, 2x10, 1x8 idea

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by kringle77, Apr 9, 2009.


  1. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    I'm planning to have don build me a verticle cab with a kappalite 3015 3015LF, 2 avatar spec neo 10's and an eminence sealed back 8". My plan would be to have the 15" in it's own chamber, ported accordingly. The two 10" and sealed back 8" would be in the other chamber together, ported accordingly. I would use and eminence pbx:800 crossover, running 800hz and below to the 1x15 and 2x10 paired as a 4ohm load. 800hz and up would go to the 8" for my top end. I currently use a cab with 3x10's and 1x8 with the same crossover. I figure that adding a 15" and making it all verticle would be a good step forward.

    Any opinions or ideas? Should I go with the 3015 or 3015LF for this rig? Dimensions, porting, experiences. I would of course have done figure out the porting and depth of the cab. Would a pair of 8" be too much top end? Having 2x8" was a consideration if they were placed side by side at the top of the cab, like a pair of big eyes on top of a snowman. Thats how it would look I guess.
     
  2. Jeff Scott

    Jeff Scott Rickenbacker guru.......... Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2006
    Keeping everything vertically aligned is a great idea, even the 2 8" drivers if you go that route.

    BTW, vertical is spelled vertical! :D
     
  3. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    There's no reason to use a fifteen and a ten together, let alone two tens. One ten would be of benefit if one had to cross over well below 500 Hz, but fifteens are fine to 800 Hz, and there are more than a few sixes or eights that can cross well below that. Since the 3015LF will run to at least 400 watts without exceeding xmax it may take a pair of midranges to keep up with it. If you don't have more than 300 watts available a standard 3015 would suffice.
    If you did use a ten it should be crossed around 300 Hz, and should be in a sealed sub-enclosure. Since a ten will run to 1.6kHz there's no value in going to an eight at 800 Hz, and for that matter no reason to use an eight, at that crossover a six will work better.
     
  4. basss

    basss Supporting Member

    Aug 27, 2001
    NY
    Tall dark and handsome sounding
     
  5. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    I figured that you would bring those point up Bill, and you are right. I have used cabs that have 1x15 and 1x8, they sounded really good except that they didn't have the same punch as a 10" puts out. It does on paper, but not to my ears. It's just my opinion but, I've owned a great cab that had 2x10's and 1x6, I much prefer the sound of the 8" sealed back speaker for my highs. It sounds clear and "brassy" without being harsh or have "scratchy" highs when overdrive is used. The 6" gave me that.

    The thought of staying with three 10" and one 8" stacked vertically is still on the table. I just thought I could get the low end of the 15 with the punch of the 10. I will never be convinced that a 15 can sound like a 10 and vice versa.
     
  6. gerryjazzman

    gerryjazzman

    Dec 31, 2006
    New Jersey
    Well if you really want to go this way, definitely use the 3015LF. Look at some suggested cabinet designs on the Eminence website for this. You'll want to build a cabinet with a separate chamber for the 3015LF and make it large to get the best benefit of the driver for the deepest bass (like 6 cu feet according to Eminence). The 10's and mid would be in their own separate chamber. You could probably make this sealed since the 15 will give you most of the bottom end. The overall cabinet will wind up being pretty large. Why not just split them to be a 1x15 and 2x10? Probably best to bi-amp this thing and cross it over between 100 and 150 hz so the 15 works in more of a subwoofer mode (you can passive crossover the 10's and the mid). You COULD do a passive crossover between the 15 and 10's but the component values would be kind of large at those frequencies (but you might get away with a 1st order crossover for that, just a series inductor for the 15, and series cap for the 10's). Bi-amping would be better though.
     
  7. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    Pretty sure you'd be fine with just a 15 and the 8 and pay a couple hundred bucks less.
     
  8. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    Building two seperate cabs has been considered. I would probably build the 2x10 - 1x8 full range so, it could be used on it's own for practice or smaller gigs. Then, the 1x15 could get the large dimensions that it deserves.

    A verticle 3x10 - 1x8 crossed at 800hz is looking like my overall choice right now. Loud, light, tall, punchy. Still in the planning stage though. Thanks guys.
     
  9. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    That puts you in the camp that believes there's any correlation between driver size and tone. There isn't. The only factor directly attributable to driver size is dispersion, which goes wider as driver size goes smaller. Unless you put said drivers side by side of course, in so doing ruining the wider dispersion pattern that's the reason for going with the smaller driver to begin with. :eyebrow:
     
  10. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    Bill, I assume what I am hearing as "punchy and tight" with a 10" is actually the low end roll-off compared to a 15"? I could undertand that. So, would I be correct in saying that a vertical stack (3x10, 1x8) would have better dispersion than stacked 15" drivers? Also, could I get the same tight sound just by rolling off some of a 15"'s low end? Or, do I just go with a vertical 3x10, 1x8 crossed at 800hz, therefore saving some eq'ing while getting the speakers closer to my ears?

    The thought of a 1x15, 1x8 cab really appeals to me but then, it would still be rather short. I'd want two and then it would be really tall. Im looking for a one cab solution to cure all of my ills.
     
  11. bassplace

    bassplace

    Mar 1, 2009
    Annapolis, MD
    I thought the argument was that the smaller cone could react quicker and that's why 10s were punchier. I do like the idea of a full range box with vertical driver setup then 3015LF sub for larger gigs. That should make for portability and height.
     
  12. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Only in the imaginations of ad copy writers. All drivers react at precisely the same speed. What you're referring to is transient response, which is measured by how long it takes a cone to come to rest after the signal to it ceases. This also is not directly tied to cone size. The response differences between 10s, 12s and 15s is slight, with the exception of drivers with extended xmax like the Eminence LF models. Comments to the contrary originate with marketing departments, not transducer engineers.
     
  13. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    OK, if I was to build a cab with a 15" & 8" crossed at 800hz which one would be better suited for the project, the kappalite 3015 or 3015LF? I have plenty of watts to drive any cab. It sounds like you are saying that the 3015 would have better transient response, but that may not be very noticable so, maybe the LF would be better?
     
  14. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    If you have more than 300 watts available the LF would be appropriate. The difference in the transient response between the 3015 and 3015LF is moot as what difference does is exist is above 800 Hz.
     

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