Before I call a lawyer, I wanted to see if anyone knows anything about the following issue. I arranged a photo shoot of my group a while back at an arts school. The stills we got of the band on a professional stage were great. They made our website look professional. A member of our group left the band, and insisted that I take down all pictures of him from my website and all our social media-- all of our group shots, all of the pictures from the shoot we did -- everything. I did it not want to cause a fight or have legal problems. So here I am, promoting a quartet, and I can only show three musicians on all our media. This former member of the group also had youtube videos posted of the band that he made while in it. I made copies of these so I would have them in case he left the band. After he left the band, he insisted that I take down all the videos of the group that I had posted after he left the band. Not wanting a fight or legal hassle, I did it. Recently, I found out that he has renamed the videos of my group that he made me take down (with myself and my existing drummer in it) with his new band's name, and is likely using the videos to promote his new group. One of the members of his group plays in my group too, so it kind of looks like his new band anway. And he's playing a lot of the same repertoire with his new band, so the videos reflect his current sound. But I was never in the new band he is promoting with my group's performance and video (all covers). I am planning to replace all the videos and pictures with the existing musicians in my band, but I'm finding it's going to be a lot of work to make the musicians come out again for shoots, etcetera. My website isn't the same any longer either, as the history is gone. So, I have these questions. 1. Does he have a case in insisting I take down all his pictures from my website with him in it, after I left the band? If you take a picture of someone, and don't get their permission to use it forever, can they legally force you take it down from the web? 2. Can I use the videos of my group, that he recorded, with him in it? 3. Does he have any legal rights because he recorded the video? Perhaps someone has run into this. I believe it's federal law but I'm not sure. I will probably call a lawyer but wondered if anyone else has been asked to sign documents when they were part of pictures or videos, or were able to force others to take down pictures and videos after they left a band.
Clearly he is in breach of copyright as you have not given him permission to use your band's vid to deceptively promote his band.
If you spend thousands of dollars in legal fees, what do you hope to get? The best thing you can do with your mental energy is move forward.
Put copies of your vids back up, and if he brings up the legal aspect, reply you will remove yours when he removes his. it's simple.. if he can threaten legal action, so can you.. for exactly the same reasons.. "If you plan to use a person's image for commercial purposes, you need to get a signed video release form from that individual." The videos are copyright of the person that took them, not the people in them, tho one should generally get release forms signed by those in them.. if they are promo material, or staged etc. See here for details.. http://www.webvideozone.com/public/88.cfm
The last two legal consultations I've had for matters unrelated (note that I said "unrelated") to music and bands cost me between $50 and $125 for 30 to 60 minutes. I simply want to know the law so I do the right things when i invest time and maybe money in new media. No more repeats of the problem I have now. This musician's demands will cause the other musicians in my groups to have to dedicate time to redoing our pictures and videos. I try to minimize the amount of time the dedicated musicians in my group (and myself) have to devote to unpaid ventures -- like video shoots, and picture shoots. That is my motivation.
Wait, he wants you to remove images and video that include him, yet he uses the same videos that include images of you and some of your band-members and he dares to threaten a lawsuit? Really? Is this dude a frikkin' idiot?? Go ahead and keep the images and videos up on your website. If he sues, you can counter sue and I bet the judge will dismiss the case. And he'll be liable for all court costs. I experienced something similar. A band I was in, we had a female vocalist which we later fired. She started her own band and used a handful of the demos our band recorded on her website. We didn't threaten lawsuit but we thought it was dishonest and distasteful especially since her band wasn't nearly good enough to recreate what we did on the demo. I left a band a few years ago and I asked the BL to remove all pics of me. He took his sweet time. I did threaten a lawsuit if he didn't take them down but he eventually did except one but I'm literally blocked so you can't see me. I'm cool with it. As for pics and video, just have a friend come by one of your gigs and take a few shots and maybe setup a vidcam and record a few tunes. Hell, my Samsung Note 3 takes HD video.
Is he or isn't he? Either way I'd put everything back up until you actually hear from his attorney, which will be never. People threaten to sue all the time. It takes time and money to sue someone, and when you look at the chances of winning and the likely monetary award, it's rarely worth it.
Yes, everything but threatening the lawsuit. He just "asked me" (in an email, months after I let hime go) to take them down. He also convinced a key player in my original group (the one from which he was let go) to join him in this new group. So the performances he recorded, which includes him, the member he convinced to join him, and myself and one other person, look kind of like his new band. Plus they play most of the same repertoire. Why else would he make me take the videos down from the web, and then rename them as his new group? And make them private so no one can see them, except people he emails them to directly? I think it's a reasonable working conclusion that they are being used to book gigs. Yes, I believe this is true. I learned that lesson about 20 years ago when my father went to court, and as a claimant, everyone lied, the judge threw out the case, and the only person who made any money was the lawyer. A person's best defense is to structure deals and relationships in such a way that the damage people can cause (and you don't always know how people will behave) is minimized. The courts are not an effective process, can be emotionally draining, and are expensive and uncertain. I am going to see the lawyer, but knowing this has been an issue in other bands from DwBass, and confirmation of my belief that there won't be an legal repercussions, helps. I think the likely outcome of this situation is this: a) I will likely put all my videos and pictures back up again. b) I will get a signature from musicians in the future that I can use the image and videos even after they are no longer in the band. No more wasting my time on matters like this -- and making the musicians with whom I work dedicate their time to unnecessary video shoots and photo sessions. Music doesn't pay welll, and hassles like these hurt the effort/reward ratio.
Not a lawyer (that caveat is important), but my understanding agrees with what's been said - copyright on a video or picture belongs to the person who took it, but you can't use a person's image (or name) without their consent and they can legally demand that you stop. So yes, if he wants he can insist that you take down pics and vids with him in them, but by the same token you can demand the same of him. Doing a consent form for the future is also a good idea.
I don't know, but there is a difference between knowing and assuming. You could go to his web site, his Facebook page, ask someone else who plays with him, etc., etc., etc. Also, he didn't MAKE you do anything. He made a request and you honored it. You could have said no.
Not speaking from a LEGAL aspect, but I wouldn't be concerned. If someone is a member of a band, and leaves that band, pictures of him go with the band itself. I highly doubt Slash would have a case if he wanted Axel to take down his pictures from the GnR website. Same thing. If the band and music is yours and he was in it when it was recorded, the video is of the BAND. He was in it at the time, so I wouldn't worry about it. Maybe. But I wouldn't care or worry about it until I got an actual letter from a lawyer, then I'd call that lawyer to make sure it was legit. The guy is blowing smoke and sounds like an entitled idiot. Way too much mental anguish has been spent on legal BS when there is nothing involved. The bottom line is at your level there is nothing to sue for. To sue someone, you must show damages. There is no revenue from the videos, nobody's reputation has been damaged, so there's no libel, I highly doubt he's in the Witness Protection Program... Screw him and use it. Replace the pics and video when you get more.
I don't see any point in going to any more effort than I have in determining what he's doing with the videos, and likely the pics-- he asked me to take down every picture of him, asked me to take down videos, and I just did it without a fuss. In spite of the hassle it would cause me. Now he has renamed the videos with his new band and is probably emailing them to clients. You don't always make an "ass of u and me" when you assume. When based on reason and judgment, you often lead to correct conclusions. Also, checking with friends -- I think that will only spawn strange looks, and will likely cause other problems. Regarding him not forcing me to do anything -- right. I could have said "no" -- right. But that's not the point of my thread. It started to learn about legal rights as best I can before deciding what to do next and seeing a lawyer. And the rest of my research may well be that I do exactly that -- reverse my Yes, and give a retroactive "no". After this is over, I'll be wiser about how to stop time wasters like this.
... Screw him and use it. Replace the pics and video when you get more.[/QUOTE] I agree with this except that I want to talk to a lawyer now so I can protect myself in the future from this kind of hassle. I attach a lot of value to the time I invested in the group, bringing him on, orienting him, letting him gut repertoire which set us back. And now, having to rebuild the website all over again. I see this as an opportunity to build my repertoire of knowledge about how to run groups.
It's good that you plan to discuss the issue with an actual lawyer. Threads like this tend to generate responses that are at best incomplete and at worst flat-out wrong. Talk with your lawyer about your specific situation and he or she will be able to give you the information you need. If you want to do some reading in the meantime, this is a decent overview of some of the legal principles associated with the right to use a person's likeness and when a subject's consent is necessary: http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/using-name-or-likeness-another
Bottom line for me is..............if he is using the same videos for his benefit, then you don't need to take them down. Can't have your cake and eat it too! I'm quite sure the videos I did with my old band, are being used to aide in booking. I don't care. I'm the one who videotaped them. I use them for my own auditions and such. I didn't want my photos on the website as I am no longer in the band and I don't represent the band so why have my pics there.
Can't say I'd agree. Definitely read up if you're interested. But if there are no monetary damages to seek—and your nettlesome former bandmate doesn't wield both a giant bankroll and a giant grudge—then the legal side of this is both theoretical and beside the point. Accordingly, pay to consult a lawyer here only if you're deeply interested (on an academic level) in how the applicable laws are read in your courts, and if you have money to burn to find those answers. The legal system in these kinds of cases isn't about delivering justice (what's right, what's wrong). It's about delivering legal judgments, driven by money. If there's no money involved, the "wheels of justice" won't be turning.
If he wants accurate information specific to his situation, it is better to consult a lawyer than this forum, because with a few relatively rare exceptions (e.g., @Music Attorney), the answers provided are frequently inaccurate. An attorney can also set him up with contact and/or release forms that he can use to reduce the risk -- however slight -- of litigation in the future. If he wants to avoid the expense of an attorney and educate himself to satisfy an academic curiosity that is an option too, and the link I provided is a good starting point.
Agreed about all that, but your first conditional phrase is the key: "if he wants accurate [legal] information specific to his situation..." My point is that if he wants that legal info (and wants to pay for it), it's to satisfy his curiosity rather than to satisfy a legal need. There's legal need only if the OP's case becomes a matter for the courts; and absent any compelling damages, it won't become a matter for the courts unless his former bandmate has enough disposable cash and a big enough grudge to bring suit against the OP for his own entertainment. That is to say, unless the bandmate is fond of nuisance suits, there's no compelling reason for the OP to pay real money for legal advice here.