Leson tweeters

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by needmoney, Mar 29, 2005.

  1. So I'm lookin at the tweeter in my spankin new Laney cab, and it's got Leson written on it... Jump on the computer, look it up on the net, and this model tweeter (made in Brazil) can supposedly hit 20 KHz :eek: Is this for real??
  2. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    i dunno. the question is, can you hear 20 Khz?
  3. Uhhh I dunno, whats 20KHz sound like :p I just found it strange considering every cab I've seen has a top frequency response of around 15-18 KHz...
  4. 20Khz is the very top end of human hearing i think, either that or 22Khz, im not sure, it could be less than that, i dunno, im meant to know these things :S
  5. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    It may go that high, but for most of us anything above 12kHz or so is moot anyway, especially those of us who've been standing in front of big amps for a few years/decades.
    Killed_by_Death likes this.
  6. Finger Blister

    Finger Blister

    Jul 8, 2003
    considered that Piezo's are used in ultra sonic emitting devices,
    I would say that 20 kHz would be reasonable.

    I recently bought a ultra sonic dog repeller:

  7. Zero Cool

    Zero Cool

    Mar 20, 2005
    Yeah it can go to 20Khz the upper limit of human hearing....

    But there crappy Piezo tweeters, they sound like azz, my Ampeg has one and i just shut it off, they rarley even use them in home audio because there so bad but you will see them in crappy car audio and cheap PA gear.... sad that good bass cabs use them as well.

  8. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I had a hearing test done last year. All things considered it wasn't too bad. I have some loss at 16K but that's ok with me - it's too high to matter really.

    This is slightly off topic - even though the higher frequencies are the first to go when you hearing starts to deteriorate, it's actually the low frequencies which cause the physical damage to your ears. I didn't know that until the audiologist told me.

    Back on topic - Every tweeter works to 20K. By that I mean every tweeter does "something" at 20K, though likely down by10 or 20dB compared to say 4k. That's why "Frequency response" is a useless spec. Every speaker ever made is 20Hz to 20K - sorta, but not really..................
  9. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    There's nothing wrong with piezo tweeters when they are properly employed. However, most of the time they aren't. Since they are inexpensive they are often seen in cabinets that are poorly engineered, very often along with a cheap woofer in a system that has no midrange capability, and any tweeter will sound bad in that situation. I use piezos in my cabs all the time, and when properly done they stand up quite well against ribbons that cost twenty times as much. As in all things what matters is not so much what you use but how you use it.
  10. Jerrold Tiers

    Jerrold Tiers

    Nov 14, 2003
    St Louis
    The problem with piezo (and regular) tweeters is real, and I'll say it even if we use them.....

    BOTH piezo (worse) and regular dynamic tweeters have a low frequency limit. As with any horn, the low limit depends on power to some degree, because the speaker movement gets larger (and varies) as the frequency gets toward horn cutoff.

    Problem is, the dynamic tweeters cut off about 3k, if you stretch it. The piezos cut off another half octave higher, in general. LeSon actually sound pretty good, properly used.

    OK, so now the first problem is that they probably leave a hole, because most good LF speakers don't go that high smoothly.

    If the range is pushed, that brings us to the NEXT problem.....

    Next problem is the power handling....the little tweeters, piezo or otherwise, can't handle much power. Piezo tend to be worse.
    But their efficiency may not be enough to offset the power limits, so peak SPL is less. Automatically, there may be a "step-down" in the "effective power response".

    To offset those restrictions, by pushing the range or letting the power be too much and "hoping its OK" , invites the problem of speaker "cone" movement getting too large. The sound is getting distorted, or worse, the "cone" may be beating itself to death on the phase plug. So, "it sounds like azzz".

    Finally, the range goes way high. Who needs the 37th overtone? It just sounds like noise anyway, virtually no musical value (except maybe as percussion). That "sounds like azzz" also.

    I can't find much to like about horns on bass cabs, unless they are folded.

    I like that 60 year old technology....the whizzer. No extra parts, cheap, automatic crossover, power limit same as speaker, can't burn it out, high end limited by the voice coil mass, so no bat-bothering harmonics. Drawback is that it really doesn't sound super.

    Amusing that the idea has now come back out after dying a horrible death in everyone's K-mart all-in-one stereo during the 70's.

    A regular cone midrange of about 4 or 5" is pretty good too, and may sound a bunch better.

    At least we put a switch or knob on the tweeters...........
  11. I really like the LeSon tweeter in my cab, it's one of the nicest tweeters I've heard.
  12. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Absolutely. The main problem with piezos is that they actually tend to be the best part of the speaker system in those systems that you usually see them employed in, which is cheap speakers, and they are usually used in cheap speakers because they are inexpensive. The trouble is that they work so much better than the woofers they are paired with that the end result is an unbalanced response. Having a tweeter with flat response from 3.5kHz to 25kHz on the high end just doesn't sound right if the low end only goes down to 80Hz and the midrange has a hole from 1kHz or so up until the tweeter kicks in. In that system using a five or six to fill in the midrange and take HF response up to 5kHz or so is a much better choice. Piezos can sound great in a system with good response from 60 to 3.5kHz Hz, but you just don't see them employed in that scenario very often.
  13. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I agree. Before you start getting picky about what type of treble you like, you've go to first make sure all the elements are there. A system with balanced amount of Bass, Mids and treble will sound good even if all the drivers are cheap. Anyone who has heard my 5.1 surround system will testify to this. I wanted to use Vifa but could only afford Dai-1chi at the time. But because it produces a balanced amount of bass, mids, and treble, no one that hears them picks them as cheap speakers.

    I used piezo's in a Vocal/DJ PA I built that has cheap P.Audio 10's for mids, and an old JBL 15 for bass. Again, Balanced Bass, mids, and treble and the cheap piezo's sound fine - until I disconnect the 15. As Bill will testify, everything goes sour at that point.

    I've been specifically refering to speakers designed for music reproduction because it's even more important in that realm than in bass guitar IMO.