lightweight beefy sounding 10" replacement drivers?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by lermgalieu, Apr 8, 2003.

  1. lermgalieu

    lermgalieu Supporting Member

    Apr 27, 2000
    Palo Alto, CA
    I posted this in DB but it seems to be gathering dust...

    I replaced the stock speakers in my Carvin RC210 with Eminence Kappas, and while the sound is now relatively massive, the thing has become heavy. Real Heavy. Like it negates that value of being a combo in the first place.

    My new theory is that I'd like to

    A) Get new lightweight 10" drivers for the carvin cab
    B) Get a lightweight 12" cabinet (like a Flite with horn) or lightweight 2x10 or 15" ampeg portabass cab.

    Anybody know of drivers for (a)? Anyone got any advice on B? I figure, from reading about portabass, that I would want a little more beef as opposed to with the Flite it seems that the downward firing 12" will provide more oomph.

    This is for DB and Electric, everything from faux Jazz to Rock. Any feedback would be appreciated, no pun intended.
  2. A friend measured his RC210 and found it has 2.9 cubic feet gross internal volume. Divided by two, this is 1.45 cubic feet per driver.

    The Eminence Deltalite 2510 requires 1.39 cubic feet tuned at 41 Hz for a tasty SBB4 alignment. These drivers weigh 7.5 pounds each, compared to the 16.8 pounds each for the Kappa Pro 10. This is a weight savings of 18.6 pounds. You will probably have to tune the cabinet back to 41 Hz.

    The SPL is nearly identical between these two drivers, but the Deltalite will give you much more bottom.

    Link to Deltalite 2510 Plots
  3. lermgalieu

    lermgalieu Supporting Member

    Apr 27, 2000
    Palo Alto, CA
    interesting! thanks!
  4. Deltalite you say.

    Would go perfect w/ the 0.188" sheet 6061/VARTM epoxy panels I'm hoping to work on by summer (If work gets less crazy). Should make for some seriously light cabs.

    Does anyone else really hate the load up at the end of the night? I can deal w/ bringing stuff early during the day, but that 2-3am hauling sucks.
  5. lermgalieu

    lermgalieu Supporting Member

    Apr 27, 2000
    Palo Alto, CA
  6. SRSiegel

    SRSiegel Guest

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    i too detest the 3 am loadout. especially when youve got all the PA, drums, bass rig, two guitar rigs... etc.
  7. Everything needs to be light as possible, and have wheels. Unless it's a permanent installation (PA).

    My back starts whining whenever I think about after gig time. And I'm 26!
  8. Tell me more.

    Yeah, I'm 2x your age (exactly) and I can dig the hassle of the load-up thing.

  9. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I am honestly surprised that this type of thread doesn't pop up more often. I flatly refuse to own a cab that weighs more than 35-40kg. An Edex 410xlt weighs as much as me (70kg), as do most 4x10's. That's insane!

    I'm also surprised that with the advent of lightweight drivers like Deltalites and P.Audio Super Neo's, that cab manufactures haven't developed a series of lightweight cabs. From what I can see there would be a big market for them, provided that sounded OK of course.
  10. fast slapper

    fast slapper

    Dec 11, 2001
    Fresno, CA
  11. Lightweight and beefy sounding. Thats an oxymoron.
  12. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I've been called worse :)

    Those Tech-Soundsystems and EA's look interesting. We haven't got those over here yet. How do they sound?
  13. VARTM is Vaccum Assisted Resin Transfer Molding. It's a way to make RTM products w/o using a set of matched molds.

    RTM products would be any kind of molded composite panel product. Used in aircraft manufacturing a lot.

    with VARTM you only need a one sided mold, a transport for the resin (or epoxy)...this is usually a mesh/wire screen, and a vaccum bag system. Vaccum bagging means to suck out the air in a composite layup process. You just put a film over the part you're laying up, and apply a vaccum over it (not the super easy part).

    So....If I use the aluminum panel as my mold side, and bond the 1550 fiberglass cloth directly to the panel, I could VARTM the whole thing.

    This would make the panel as light and stiff as possible. Then you could weld the exteriors together if you put the aluminum on the outside, then fill in the burned areas from welding process. You could bond in any inserts for driver mounting, handles, grilles...etc during the VARTM process.

    It'll take some time (that I don't have right now) to develop it. The tooling cost is nil, just the vaccum system is the only special tool. Maybe $1000 for a decent setup. The aluminum panels are the mold.

    It's just an idea I had. I have done some studys for work on fender manufacturing, so I applied it to this.

    Worth trying?
  14. Petebass: What company is P. Audio? Hate to sound ignorant, but it just doesn't ring any bells with me.

    I'm looking for some 16-ohm neo-dymium 10" bass speakers. All of Eminance's Delta-lites are 8-ohm.
  15. jock


    Jun 7, 2000
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Here is a link
  16. Tuf,

    The only way to tell is by prototyping a cab and see how it stands up to the pounding. If the walls are internally braced to the opposite wall, this will help to prevent wall flexing from the pressure. I want to try this technique with some 1/4" plywood for a floor monitor project.

    The 10" Deltalites are available to the public for just under $100 each. The seller is not allowed to advertise the price because it is below MAP.
  17. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    They're not well known but they're great bang for the bucks. I also wanted 16 ohm speakers and they were able to order them in for me. I used 2 of these speakers . Silly me put them in a cab that was way too big, so I'm in the process of redesigning the box. Apparently a 2x10 with these speakers should only be 37litres (1.23 cu.ft) That's small! It won't have any bottom end, but that suits the intention perfectly because I intend to use it as an extension to my 15" speaker.
  18. lermgalieu

    lermgalieu Supporting Member

    Apr 27, 2000
    Palo Alto, CA
    ok i ordered some deltalites. however bgavin gave me some advice which sounds like gibberish to this non-speaker building neophyte. He wrote:

    What are the practical steps I must take to 'tune the cabinet back to 41 Hz'? Thanks!
  19. jokerjkny


    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    great thread!

    i'm pretty much the "Grandpa" of the Amp forum, given that i dont use anything heavier than 60 lbs. ;)

    but as soon as i find some time, i'm gonna set up an appointment to Nick Epifani's shop and take a gander at the ultralite cabs. he's one of the best in the biz, so i know they'll sound killer.

    but i'm kinda also waiting for Jim Bergantino to do something ultralite. i love my 39 lbs. HT112, but would love to try a 3x10 that's easier on my back.