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Lincoln Goines Quote

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by Slot, Oct 27, 2003.


  1. Slot

    Slot

    Oct 17, 2003
    Sydney - The Shire
    Its pretty pointless, but i just found this great little quote

    From someone who spends a fair bit of time hanging 'round drummers and drum shops, i wish i could shove this statement down all of their throats ........im sure some of you know what i mean:D
     
  2. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
    Quotes like that should be taken with a grain of salt.

    In most cases it helps to know at least a little bit about the artist too.

    But I agree in that people tend to focus on superficial things too much rather than on the substance.
     
  3. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member Administrator

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    actually, i don't agree with this. sure, it's good to study music theory, but music is ultimately inteded as expression of emotion. theory can describe what's going on, but it can't manufacture feelings. understanding the person making the music, where they come from and their cultural background, is very important imo in being able to get a grasp of the underlying inspiration to the music and therefore a clearer understanding of the music itself.
     
  4. Slot

    Slot

    Oct 17, 2003
    Sydney - The Shire
    I agree with alot of what both of you are saying.

    But i think you're looking a little to deeply into it.

    I interpreted it as nothing more than a piss take on the cats that know what color undies their favourite musicians wear, yet dont know the notes on their fretboard. In my experience bassists arent normally to bad in this regard, but drummers, jeeeeesh!:rolleyes:
     
  5. I think he's trying to say not to idolize players...ie Wooten, Fieldy;), etc...
     
  6. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I tend to agree with that quote, to a certain extent - so I don't feel it is relevant that a number of Jazz greats in the 1960s were Heroin Addicts.

    The music was great and worthy of study - but I don't need to be a heroin addict to appreciate it or incorporate what they did, into my own playing!! :eek:

    So, I think it's important to understand a particular player's approach to improvisation, but it doesn't add anything, to know that they were a Heroin addict.
     
  7. Pacman

    Pacman Layin' Down Time Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 1, 2000
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
    But it is important that you know that drugs played a major role in the development of the music. (IMO) Understanding it does not mean, of course, that you should do drugs and expect that you'll play like (for instance) Coletrane. But I believe it's important to know about the artist's state when the art was concieved - it will help bring deeper meaning to the music.
     
  8. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I disagree - many Jazz musicians from the same period were actually "straight" and made records that were just as good. It may have been important to know at the time - if you were looking to play in Jazz groups with junkies! :meh:

    But I don't see how it is relevant now - looking back at a recorded legacy - at all! I have seen loads of Jazz musicians in the last few years, who have influenced me and I know nothing about their personal lives at all really - but their music had something from which I could learn.

    I think the obsession with personal details is just about building up a 'mystique' and selling books - nothing to do with music!!
     
  9. LM Bass

    LM Bass

    Jul 19, 2002
    Vancouver, BC
    Yeah Lincoln!
    One of my favourite bassists.
    I basically agree with him on this one. Maybe it's really a question of balance -perhaps we're all a little bit too obsessed with personality.
    I'd add that we (I) might be spending too much time worrying over amps and strings and pedals, rather than learning about music history, theory, rhythm, melody etc. IMO, YMMV,

    Okay, now back to your desks!
    :rolleyes: ;)
     
  10. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I agree - I've read a few potted bios of classical composers and some sound like really nasty people, that you wouldn't want to meet! But their music can be very beautiful and serene.

    So - why poison your impression of great music - why not just enjoy it, for what it is?



    I think this is why classical music used for TV adverts often becomes incredibly popular and I've heard of companies getting inundated with requests - what was that fantastic music advertising your product?

    So - people are too obsessed with the cult of personality and think - oh classical composers : boring, stuffy etc. I wouldn't like that - I like young exciting people!! :rolleyes:

    But then when they actually hear the music isolated, with no relation to a composer or time period, they are incredibly surprised at how great that music is and how much they enjoy it! :)
     
  11. JimK

    JimK

    Dec 12, 1999
    Truth be told-
    I couldn't really get with Coltrane's late period stuff until I digested a couple of bios(authors Lewis Porter & Eric Nisenson).
    Same goes for Miles' '70s electric period bands...read Paul Tingen's *great* book Miles Beyond; now I'm lovin' that stuff.
     
  12. JimK

    JimK

    Dec 12, 1999
    Miles probably agrees with you, Bruce.
    Some of those '70s electric albums had no liner notes, no personnel listed, etc...some artists have fought with their label over packaging & what-not. Some didn't even want their name(or the band's name) on the cover!

    The idea is to put the music on & LISTEN...not merely read about it(especially while the music's playing)! Our eyes can deceive us.
    ;)
     
  13. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Well - that's what I meant - I can see both sides to it - but I find it strange when someone I know liked Stan Getz's music - but then refused to listen to him after reading a biography!! ;)

    I think both Miles and Mingus amongst many others I've read about, were not very nice people - but they made some great music!

    Another one is Joe Zawinul - in the late 70s and early 80s I knew nothing about his life but loved his tunes and playing - the more I've read about him though, and seen/heard on documentaries - the less I like him and feel like my view of the music has changed - really I wish I didn't know anything about him!! :meh:
     
  14. wulf

    wulf

    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    In some ways it's useful to know that your musical heroes weren't necessarily people you'd have enjoyed working with - it can make you more realistic about those you do work with.

    Otherwise, an over romanticised view of what it would have been like to gig with Miles (or whatever) could stop you appreciating the opportunities that you do have.

    Wulf
     
  15. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    But I don't think you should necessarily listen to Music with a view to how those people would be to play with!

    I think you have to treat music as a work of art to be appreciated and enjoyed as such.

    In a way, this is what makes works like "The Rite of Spring", "Turangalila Symphonie" etc. so enjoyable - as I never even consider how to play them - I know it is way beyond my abilities!

    But that doesn't stop me enjoying them and being moved by that music, as a work of art, that exists independent of any composer or musical director.
     
  16. wulf

    wulf

    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    Don't you sometimes find yourself thinking "I wish I was in a group like such and such"? Reading biographies, autobiographies and the other scraps that come my way leaves me feeling more content to make my living as a webmaster and to make music for fun.

    It doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the music (indeed, I like to be able to understand things in the context of when and why they were written as well as my present reaction to them) but know about the lives these musicians have led (what they've chosen and what's been forced on them) helps me remember that there's mud under the grass on both sides of the fence.

    Wulf
     
  17. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Well - I like to put things in a musical context - like why Miles wanted to change to 'calm things down' after Bebop with modal Jazz and how Bill Evans contributed to this - or how Charlie Parker expanded chords with upper extensions. But I don't see how their personal life has anything to do with this?

    Are you really saying that if you are a happily-married family man who doesn't abuse his wife and kids, spend all his money on drugs etc. - that you can't play Jazz!!! :meh:

    To me - all that is irrelevant - is it good playing, is it musical, is it saying something interesting - those sorts of questions are relevant - not that the player/composer was a junkie who abused his wife!
     
  18. wulf

    wulf

    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    Far from it! I'm just suggesting that it's helpful to remember that famous musicians are people too, not enlightened angels sent from above and floating on an altogether higher plane of existence.

    There's been plenty of good music from clean living people and probably countless musical sessions that have been below par because one or more of the participants were wasted on drink or drugs, or just exhausted out of their minds by hectic schedules and lifestyles.

    Wulf
     
  19. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Of course - but if you start reading Bios of the Jazz greats - you might start thinking that what I said :

    "if you are a happily-married family man who doesn't abuse his wife and kids, spend all his money on drugs etc. - that you can't play Jazz!!!"


    - is the case!! ;)
     
  20. wulf

    wulf

    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    I haven't read that many musicians biographies / autobiographies (either Jazz or other genres) but I've found them to be a mixed bag. The ones that come to mind from the past few months were Sting and Quincy Jones (neither of which made me yearn to emulate their lives, though I love their music), John Dankworth (haven't heard a lot of his stuff, but he seemed pretty clean living) and Joe Jackson.

    I can't remember the details too clearly, but Jackson's [em]A Cure for Gravity[/em] is the one I'd be most keen to read again - he's not only a gifted artist and composer, but also either a talented writer (or someone who knows how to get a good ghost writer). That book is highly recommended ;)

    Wulf