Line Audio CM4

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Silevesq, Aug 2, 2019.


  1. Silevesq

    Silevesq

    Oct 2, 2010
    Quebec
    Hey everyone,

    I bought a pair of CM4 and decided to try various recording technic.
    It's not a review video per say, but I think you can get a lot of information from it.

    Every segment of the video consist of the pair of microphone at 18, 12, 6 inches from the bridge of the double bass. The microphone placement used are Spaced, XY and ORTF. In each case I played a 12 bar blues in Bb (same note) across two octave and a G Scale in 3rd Octave. Both played pizz and arco.

    Beware the video is more than 10 minutes.

    I didn't do any editing for the sound. CM4(x2) to Yamaha MG82CX to Garage Band (channel one panned to the right, channel two panned to the left).

    Enjoy!

     
  2. Very interesting! Here are some spontaneous remarks. Spaced sounds very realistic to me. But XY adds a bit more punch to the low end attack, and places the bass more precisely in the sound picture (in a smaller spot). ORTF sounds a bit more diffuse, you get more sound of the room. Perhaps welcome when you are at a close distance.
     
    Silevesq likes this.
  3. AGCurry

    AGCurry Supporting Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    St. Louis
    Of the three, the X/Y provides the best sound IMO. That said, I'm not sure I understand why you're recording double bass in stereo at all - at those distances. There's little auditory information gained by it.
     
    Chris Fitzgerald likes this.
  4. Silevesq

    Silevesq

    Oct 2, 2010
    Quebec
    Nice remark, did you find this to be true for all distances? Honestly I've been enjoying ORTF for that precise reason. I always enjoy hearing the room when listening to an instrument.
     
    Povl Carstensen likes this.
  5. Silevesq

    Silevesq

    Oct 2, 2010
    Quebec
    Do you have any suggestion? I'm open to make a part two of that video and try different approach.

    As the question why, may I ask you why not?
    I believe that every little information gained is a plus, every time I try one versus two microphone I feel there is a bit of magic happening when I pan them to their respective side. To each situation their own solution, it all depend what you are looking for ;)
     
    Ukiah Bass and Povl Carstensen like this.
  6. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri

    I have a pair of the CM3's which are the predecessors to this mic. Thanks for doing this, I really enjoy when someone takes the time to record sound samples vs someone just

    trying to describe what a specific microphone sounds like (which by the way, I've been guilty of on more than one ocassion. The Line Audio CM series are very good at reproducing

    Double Bass, very compact, and inexpensive. It's an ideal microphone for recording Double Bass if you're on a budjet without compromising quality.
     
    Chris Fitzgerald and Silevesq like this.
  7. AGCurry

    AGCurry Supporting Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    St. Louis
    I have to start by expressing my bias, which is that the best recording is one which sounds like the source. Others may have a different bias, hence the plethora of techniques and effects.

    My main point is that a single omnidirectional mic, at the right distance, will do everything that your pair is doing, but better. Want more "room" sound? Farther away. Only the bass? Up close.

    The main purpose of stereo recording is to create a sonic field in which different sources can be located by the ears and brain of the listener. The purpose of stereo recording of a single instrument is to recreate as well as possible the sound of the instrument in the room (of course, it should be a nice room).

    Of course, we can pan tracks to our heart's content, and in doing so simulate a stereo recording. But do you really want a recording of a single double bass to be spaced widely?

    Yes, a close X/Y pattern with cardioid microphones will pick up more of the bass's top plate than a single cardioid mic. That may - or may not - be good, and of course the inherent proximity effect of directional microphones alter the sound source. It would be interesting to hear the difference of your recorded tracks (that can be done by flipping the polarity of one of the tracks). Nevertheless, a single [good] omni will do the trick as well or better.

    Finally: If it makes you happy, gei gezunt (go in good health)!
     
    Silevesq likes this.
  8. Ofcourse it could be inteeresting to hear a comparison of a single mic, and the stereo configuration.
     
  9. I think it can make sense in recordings with few instruments, like a trio (bass, sax, dr's for instance), or ofcourse in solo recordings to use a stereo configuration. As Silevesq says, all things equal, you get more information, a more "vibrant" sound I would say, going out on a limb... Using stereo mics, my stereo WW amp and two MAS 16's for live use would probably be overdoing it (I try to tell the nerd in me...).
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
    Ric Vice likes this.
  10. I would have to listen again. But I remember noticing it in the close configuration. A side question: do you know if it is possible to buy a "one unit" stereo mic?
    Edit: Oh, here for instance: https://www.thomann.de/dk/rode_nt4.htm
     
  11. ... Or this:
    A646C3C4-6845-4AFF-92E0-CDB7800B4E06.jpeg
    The original ORTF mic, made by Schoeps for the French broadcasting organisation ORTF (hence the name of the mic configuration). Not the cheapest one, though, but it sounds incredible, especially together with my Nagra 7 stereo recorder.
     
    Povl Carstensen and Kristian like this.
  12. I know, I am a Schoeps fanboy...
     
    Chris Fitzgerald likes this.
  13. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    True, but you always have the most considerate posts and show us gear, that may be expensive, but gets at the heart of the problem. Simple and elegant.

    If I could afford a Schoeps, I'd have one. For us mere mortals, I think the Line Audio CM4 is a great sounding, option. Especially, in the continental United States.
     
    Chris Fitzgerald, Silevesq and Vunz like this.
  14. Silevesq

    Silevesq

    Oct 2, 2010
    Quebec
    As suggested by @AGCurry here is a part II for the Line Audio CM4. Single microphone at 6, 12, 18 and 24 inches of the bridge. Enjoy!
     
    Fat bob and Doppelbasser like this.
  15. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Once again, this is a very nice demonstration of mic placement and just how great the CM4 Sounds! Interestingly enough, once things get going and my ears adjust to the timbre change.
    The differences in microphone placement are subtile at best. Your playing is very consistent, so the low end does tend to thin out slightly, as you move it further away but the way the
    Line Audio mic reproduces the bass is very accurate and warm. Thanks for doing this, you've confirmed what I felt when I recorded with the the CM3's. It's an excellent choice for recording
    the Double Bass. There is very little volume drop off as you move further away from the bass. Fryr-Tuk's demo demonstrates your stellar playing.
     
    Chris Fitzgerald and Silevesq like this.
  16. Silevesq

    Silevesq

    Oct 2, 2010
    Quebec
    Thank you very much for your nice comment!
     
  17. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    I don't know what the difference between the CM4 and CM3 is, but I think they are both great mics. My audio nerd friend explained a few things about what makes the CM3 great before I bought them, and I believed him, but the fact that he was using them to record professional orchestras with stellar results was what sold me.

    On the issue of why record a single bass in stereo, I can't speak to technically why that's a good idea. But I discovered it by accident a good while back when using an Audio Technica 2022 into a stereo digital recorder. It was the only mic I had handy and the signal had - for lack of a better term - more "dimensionality" than a single mic. In the studio, for years engineers would put me in the booth with large diaphragm mics, and they had a certain attractive "solid" sound. The last time I went into the studio, I brought a pair of CM3's and asked the engineer to set them up alongside their favorite mic of choice for bass. We ended up using the CM3 tracks.

    Maybe, as mentioned above, the pair picks up more of the top for a more organic sound. Maybe the stereo signal sounds more like listening to a bass through two ears instead of one. I don't know, but it sounds good to me!
     
  18. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Chris,
    Good woords. Did you have the CM3’s mounted on a stand, pointed at the bridge?
     
  19. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    On an X/Y bar on a stand, about 18" in front of the bridge.
     
    Silevesq likes this.
  20. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Thanks I'll try that one, next time we record. Were you in a iso booth or out in the room?
     
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