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Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by 48thStreetCustom, Aug 13, 2012.
Has anyone used this?
Haven't used it, thanks for the link, that was interesting.
What I can't understand is why I would buy an M20D for $2500 when I could buy a StudioLive 16.4.2 for ~$1800.
Given the price, and the ordeal required to adjust a single parameter, and what seems to be a very constrictive user interface, I don't think it's a good idea.
Granted, I can see that they are trying to appeal to some blockheaded musician who knows nothing about live sound, who may in fact find the M20D appealing.
I mean, jeez, you can buy Tascam DM-3200 or a Yamaha 01V96i or a SC GB4-32 for the same money.
I've just started to look at digital mixers to see if they would be worth the spend over my existing stuff.
The StudioLive seems to retain the look, feel and functionality you would expect from semi pro level stuff. The Line 6 (and the Mackie DL1608) seem to have a gimmicky 'toy' vibe about them. I'm probably completely wrong and just letting my knee jerk prejudice get in the way but....
Is that what it is? Live sound for dummies?
Another company trying to commercialize the idea of a non-traditional hardware mixing interface. Digital mixers are really very little more than software with a special interface, it just seems that the new "thing" for Makcie, Line 6, and others, is to make it work with something other than the traditional knobs and faders adapted from analog mixing.
I've mixed a few shows now with an Ipad linked to a Presonus Studiolive, this just replaces the "mixer" with a different type of interface. They're going to have a tough time overcoming the interface I think...experienced people are just used to knobs and faders, and it's comfortable having them ready if the interface to the software or network goes down. I'd have a tough time trading....but it might be fun to try. On such a small scale like this Line6, I don't see a huge market for this particular piece. It's too small/pricey for weekend warriors, and not big enough (channel count) for most bigger operators. I think it's trying to solve for a non-existent or limited market space.
I Agree. A 24 channel option would be nice, with lots of aux sends. Individual monitor mixes are slowly becoming the norm. I really like all the built-in fx, eq's and processors.
I do buy-in to the concept, though. I liken it to going from a DOS computer to a Windows (or Mac) GUI. It just makes your job easier, especially to the newer users.
We use an iPad wifi'd to our 01-V mixer, so that our trustworthy friend (with good ears) can tweak the mix from the audience. We do our own soundcheck and set the levels onstage before he gets the iPad, and he gets to tweak the vocals, fx, and instrument mix while we play. It's been working great so far. (oh, and he does it for free. Cuz it's fun, and not a lot of work for him)
This is a very good point.
I could imagine a small casual band using something like the M20D, but the price puts it out of reach.
And in live sound, the faster you can change a parameter, the better.
In a typical digital mixer, it's generally two actions: push SEL, and tweak the parameter.
With the M20D, it appears to be quite a journey.
Digital usually can be expanded or stacked easy enough.
If you want more knobs you can midi controllers with knobs or motorized faders
Line 6 and Mackie should have teamed up on some standards for inter-connectivity and expansion.
This is a good point. If there was a way to intuitively and easily control the M20D and DL1608 from external control surfaces, they would certainly be a bit more useful.
However, after a lot of the GUI on the M20D depends on XY panels, something many control surfaces do not excel at.
So it would cost $5000 (2 X $2500) to get 24 channels?
If they were smart enough to add an AES50 they could be like Behringer and get 96 channels from outboard and low cost expansion.
Or if the added ADAT you can add on Behringer ADA8000 for 8 channels for around $200
I'm not sure Line-6 was so smart, or is planning to offer expansion boards in the future.
I was there when the rep demo'd it at my local music store. I really considered upgrading to it for a lot of reasons, but it had some serious flaw.
1) snapshots that you can keep on a SD card, internal storage, etc
2) Line6 ecosystem looks really awesome matching this and Line6 speakers and monitors
3) really liked the ability to record 20 seconds or so, play it back and sound check from that while carrying an iPad into the crowd
4) autosensing of input sensitivities so my idiot drummers don't sound check at one level and play at another
5) friendly lingo with XY controller so idiot bandmates significant others can say they want a brighter tone on the vocals instead of saying boosting xxx frequency when they don't know what they're talking about
6) record each channel and remix at your leisure
7) No lugging the snake around
2) at this time, 1st generation mixers can not link to other mixers for expansion channels. You're stuck with 12 smart channels and 4 line level inputs.
3) with Line6 ecosystem, you have to live with unproven Line6 speaker designs. They're much different than the competitors and I think more DJ oriented.
I ended up not upgrading the mixer at this time (upgraded my tops instead), but when I do will probably do the Presonus. This is priced outside of what I consider reasonable for what I do. I think this would be great if someone wanted to spend the money and buy an entire Line6 stage ecosystem and rent it out to bands in the area. Band could store the settings on their SD card and use with any Stagescape. That's what the rep was intending to do. Or maybe a club could use as house PA and let other bands bring their own SD card with settings. Regardless, the small number of channels, lack of expansion for other channels, and price make this seem like a bad deal.
I think the appeal of these two mixers, the mackie 1608 and the line 6 soundscape is mostly to bands like mine, we don't have a soundman or roadies and we have to get in quickly and start playing.
I've run enough sound to know that you can't beat having a real sound man but if that's not an option one of these boards might
be a nice compromise.
I had the presonus and that was nice but you had to have a laptop AND a router and an iPad and it was too much to think about from stage.
These mixers are small and do replace a good amount of gear but how do they sound?
I thought I'd ask if anyone had gotten one of these since the last post?
The prices have come down a little so.....
what do you think?
it appeals to me because nobody in our band really has a clue how to EQ the sound (i really dont know what parameter affects what and how. The visual representations of the setup and the adjustments seems so easy to use. And the ability to link with the rest of the line6 speaker setup takes another variable off the table. From everything i've heard they sound great. One of our band members has a L3T and it does pack a lot of punch. Pretty close to pulling the trigger - although i must admit, at least a part of the allure is the kid in me who wants another toy to play with
Hmmm...I've done a lot more digging into these things and they do look very tempting, especially being able to do a deep dive on so many parameters. The autogain looks good, and the ability to assign a feedback killer to any channel is also a neat touch.
The ability to hook up an iPad to mix remotely looks to be nicely implemented and the recording functionality looks very nice.
I may be in a position to get one of these in the next couple of months and I'll then be joining the ranks of those weighing up Mackie DL1608 for the simplicity vs Presonus for functionality...the stagescape looks like a good blend of the two, especially for someone who has to mix from the stage like me.
I must admit, as a Line 6 user, to being put off by the way that Line 6 left us bass players high and dry when we proved not to be as lucrative a market as they'd hoped. The stagescape also looks to be slow getting off the ground, probably because of the shock of the new with the interface, plus the fact that it's priced too high for the majority of weekend warrior bands and not sophisticated enough/small channel count for big rigs. Could be another product line that's dropped like a hot potato if it doesn't start flying off the shelves.
I'm very tempted, but don't want to be a guinea pig for Line 6.
I've got the full Dreamstage rig and I've been running sound for bands for 20 years with traditional speakers and mixers, I took the plunge about 6 months ago first with the M20d and then the speakers and even some I use for monitors, Took me about a week to get the M20d down in my head and TBH its the best move a guy can make if they mix from a stage- No feedback,Stops the band turning the volume up with the Trim tracking,Great great live recordings and so simple to rig up with the L6 link just one cable to all speakers and the M20d takes care of the rest. I save each venue we play and load up the scene when we play there again cutting set up time even less.
If anything I don't like? the Subs which are a bit big for the format and the Line 6 bags are cheap and expensive.
I know there are other options out there like the new Behringer and Mackie but for a gigging player it makes my life so much easier at show time which is worth the cost.
Thanks OneBass, that's good input
I'm not a sound guy. I don't want to be a sound guy and I don't think I should need one with a 3 or 4 piece bar band. From a standpoint of how much gear do I want to carry and set up, the M20d wi8th active speakers *almost* lets me leave the amp at home and go direct. If the drummer wasn't so anally obsessed with his acoustic drums... The IPad interface that lets you tweak it from any place in the room is simple enough to let my girlfriend tweak the FOH mix from her table. They don't have all the bugs out yet and in defense of the cost, assign a dollar value to maintaining a big enough vehicle to haul a conventional rig, how much load in-loadout you want to do (We *are* getting older, ya know) or how many gigs you don't do because it's not worth hauling the PA around for. In that light the M20d system starts looking like a bargain.[/I]
What are people using to interface with the iPad ?
Is actual internet access required or do you just need a router ?
It's hard to understand from the line6 website how it actually needs to be setup.
Can someone who uses it successfully explain exactly how it is set up .... i.e.. what wire to what device etc (for the technically challenged idiots like me)
+1. I'd feel better if they made it compatible with Android.