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Live Gigs

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by peterpalmieri, May 1, 2005.


  1. peterpalmieri

    peterpalmieri Supporting Member

    Apr 19, 2005
    Babylon, NY
    A little background, I play in 10 piece band 4 horn, 2 vocals plus rhythm section. We do EWF, Chicago, Blood Sweat and Tears, Stevie Wonder, Tower of Power, Big Bad Vodoo Daddy and Funk (play that funky music, Brickhouse) etc.

    Here is my question I have a Mesa Boogie Scout 1x12 combo 300watts, I've played a lot of bar gigs, street fairs with absolutely no problems I love the amp and play out at least 6 times a month. We have a gig coming up that is going to be in front of at least 2,000 people outside, we'll have a PA with subs. Should I be worried about my stage volume?

    I have played in other bands with an SVT w/8x10s but that was hard rock and a long time ago. Is this big rig set up a small dick issue or should I be looking at adding another cabinet to the mix?

    Thanks for your input.

    Pete
     
  2. Kelly Lee

    Kelly Lee Yeah, I'm a guy! Supporting Member

    Feb 17, 2004
    Marana, AZ, USA
    I would definately add another cab just to be safe. A 115 would be my first choice or maybe a 212. If the sound guy is good and you can hear yourself through the monitors then it really isn't a big deal. You can always unplug it!

    I am assuming you have another cab already. If you don't, I would see if you can borrow or rent one. There is no need to waste money on a cab that you would not use again.
     
  3. Jazzin'

    Jazzin' ...Bluesin' and Funkin'

    Your band is my dream band, well at least I'm starting a new band which is close to that this summer. But anyways, I suggest adding another cab, if your amp can handle it. If you don't want to pay to buy one, then rent one for the time of the gig.
     
  4. peterpalmieri

    peterpalmieri Supporting Member

    Apr 19, 2005
    Babylon, NY
    Thanks both of you. I can simply pop the walkabout head out of the combo and put it on a bigger cabinet. I honestly am not looking for suggestions on what cabinet, but thanks for the input.

    My real concern is stage volume.

    I believe the guitar is using a 4x10 Fender Twin reverb and the keys a 1x15 Roland. I am concerned with stage volume, if I put up a huge rig I'll blow the horn players and singers off the stage?

    Typically we only use the monitors for vocals and horns, the rhythm section uses stage volume (our amps and the drums acoustically)

    Will I be throwing the levels out of wack?
    BTW no sound guy
     
  5. It sounds to me like all the instruments are using their amps purely for self-monitoring, rather than filling the stage or projecting into the house. If that's the case, then your Walkabout combo has been doing just fine and will continue. If you feel YOU won't be able to hear it onstage, then tilt it back to fire up at you or put it up on a stool closer to ear level...This orientation may interfere with your horn players.

    I, on the other hand, play one of your so-called "small dick issue, big rig setup", but since I have a small dick, I take no offense. :rolleyes:

    If YOU'RE worried about stage volume for this 1 gig, then rent a bigger combo or another speaker cabinet that can go from a speaker out on your Walkabout, just to give you a little more fill. You shouldn't be throwing any levels out of whack, because it's 99% guaranteed your guitarist will turn up playing outside. Adding a bigger combo or cabinet will make you bigger, and not necessarily louder unless you want it to.
     
  6. Craig Garfinkel

    Craig Garfinkel

    Aug 25, 2000
    Hartford, CT
    Endorsing Artist: Sadowsky Guitars
    The "no sound guy" thing is what I'd worry about. Why is this? A PA with nobody running the board? That's ridiculous. :eek:

    I was going to address your rig problem, but I can't get past the "no sound guy" thing. How is this possible? How are you going to do levels?

    Even if you did have somebody running sound, you'd have to have separate monitor mixes to make using such a small rig possible IMO. In fact, two separate mixes at a minimum, and for a horn/vocal band four separate monitor mixes would be ideal.

    Since you are the only one who will be able to control your stage volume so that everyone can hear you, you're going to need a more powerful rig.

    PA with subs and no sound engineer? Really? :confused:
     
  7. Entirely too much info........ :scowl:
     
  8. 'twas a joke, meant in jest, to produce humorous reaction. ;)
     
  9. :D
     
  10. 62bass

    62bass

    Apr 3, 2005
    I have a Walkabout Scout 12 and play pretty well in the same situations as you. Horns and vocals only in the monitors. For the occasional outdoor gig or very large stage I borrow or rent a larger cabinet. The trick is to find one that's 4 ohms so I can get full power out of the Walkabout head. I don't use an extension with the Walkabout cabinet because I don't want to run the head below 4 ohms. My Scout's internal speaker is 4 ohms.

    This has worked out well for me and I've been using the Walkabout for more than a year now and am very pleased.

    We often bring a PA and run it ourselves with no soundman out front. You have to know what you're doing of course. It helps that a few of the guys in the group work for a large sound company and are well trained and able to access good equipment.
     
  11. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    You do this for 2000+ person gigs like the one in this thread? Really? :eyebrow:

    I wouldn't even consider a gig like that without a minimum of two sound guys, but whatever works...
     
  12. peterpalmieri

    peterpalmieri Supporting Member

    Apr 19, 2005
    Babylon, NY
    A couple of answers and comments:

    My small pee pee comment was joke.
    I have access to a number of cabinets from other players but I bought this set up thinking it would get most of my work done for me, this one I am slightly concerned with.
    As for the lack of sound guy, we play 2 gigs a week and have 2 singers who can check our levels during the sound check. We're working a lot and have 10 members to feed, we're very comfortable without one.
    I especially appreciate the comments from my fellow walk about user, I have an 8ohm internal so I can add an extension and if it turns out my rig doesn't cut it I'll be placing my order, BTW my mesa is red wine taurus with a tan grill.
    Some of you guys like to really push things to the next level, we don't have the time for 4 seperate monitor mixes, and all the quipment that goes along with it. On many occassions we take a boat to our gigs so gear is at a minimum, we're used to that and comfortable that way.
    I probably left something out. if I do borrow a cab, I'll probably use a friends 2x12 bag end and pull the head out of my scout, I haven't been really convinced to do so yet, but I am taking notes.

    Thanks guys!

    Pete
     
  13. USAJO

    USAJO

    Apr 13, 2005
    I have been playing a summer schedule that always includes outside gigs of various nature to large crowds. I find that the rigs I've tried just get eatin up on a large open stage. I'm only pushing 400 watts into various cabs but overall I always feel like there just isn't enough stage volume for me. I tried two gigs where I placed a single cab facing me in front as a monitor and that worked pretty good for me but not the rest of the band, so this year I have one cab to put by the drummer and one cab as a monitor in front of me. I'm hoping that does the job. The cabs are T-112 Epifani's, the days of large heavy cabs are no longer an option for me. I think with about 600 watts I would be able to make it work with the two single 12 cabs.
    It's not even that the band is that loud on stage it's just the wide open stage that swallows bass notes.
     
  14. peterpalmieri

    peterpalmieri Supporting Member

    Apr 19, 2005
    Babylon, NY
    Interesting comment USAJO.

    If everyone can focus on my concern and not the soundman or monitoring technique as that is not changable.

    We played on a mobil band shell this past weekend, you know the tractor trailer with the walls that flip down, I had no problems.
     
  15. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    OK, it's your funeral. :cool:

    I've used a Walkabout Scout 1 X 12 a number of times. No way it would cut through 4 horns for me at any largish outdoor venue in a funk band, but I do play fretless and that always seems to require more power. The guy who owned it found that he needed an extension for any gig over about 150 people, indoors or out. He used an Avatar 1 X15, FWIW. Obviously, we are already not seeing eye to eye, but there are a couple of data points for you anyway.

    Best of luck!
     
  16. peterpalmieri

    peterpalmieri Supporting Member

    Apr 19, 2005
    Babylon, NY
    passinwind, I don't doubt your issues with the set up. That's why I'm looking for input.

    I play a passive Jazz bass with the bridge pick up only unless I am slapping then I use both pickups w/compression. Or my NS EUB.

    More often then not I don't run through the PA unless we're outside or in a big club. The pre gain is usually set at 11 o'clock and I have never had a need to push the main volume past 12 o'clock, and i'm running through a single 8ohm not the 4ohm which the head is rated for. I did plan ahead figuring I might have to add the extra cabinet.

    I seem to be way out of sync with everyone elses thoughts, I will say I am blown away by my scout and a big fan of 12s.

    I had been a Ampeg SVT Classic w/8x10 guy for a long time, then dropped down to an Eden 4x10 now the scout. I never played those with this band though.

    In my old spend thrift days I'd already have a huge cab burning a hole in my pocket, but I know I can borrow if need be.
     
  17. 62bass

    62bass

    Apr 3, 2005
    It makes perfect sense to me Pete. it sounds like you have things worked out well with the PA. It gets too easy to get caught up in the technical intricacies. Simpler the better works well for me.

    I love the Walkabout. Lots of fat power and very tubelike warmth. Mine is the factory black vinyl. I'd love one of the custom colours. Yours sounds great.
     
  18. peterpalmieri

    peterpalmieri Supporting Member

    Apr 19, 2005
    Babylon, NY
    62bass,

    I love the amp and will probably some day get the extension but not today.

    While I love this forum, this time can be better spent practicing. Jaco had a ****ty bass and amp and had the best sound ever, because he practiced all the time. I try to focus on that and not spend so much time buying stuff or talking about it like I am now..

    Pete
     
  19. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    OK, you may not know that I'm a former/still occasional sound provider too, eh? I wouldn't want to tell you what the configuration was for the last 2500 seater I worked on. ;)

    Are you going to use the EUB on this gig? Just curious, do you use the magnetic pickup? I really liked my friend's Scout for fretless BG, or for electric sounding EUB, and I use 12s all the time myself these days, so we're not completely at odds. Actually, if you're confident your band's stage volume won't go up beyond what you're used to, I'd say you're golden.

    But:

    One of the problems I ran into last year with my EUB at outdoor shows was diminishing pitch definition when I was mixed hot into the subs. The hot subs brought stage volume up substantially, which gave other band members problems as well. Using a 15 onstage made that a lot worse, FWIW. I eventually settled on an EA CxL-112 as the best medicine. We also tried that with my friend's Scout used as an extension, it worked really well. My point being, look at adding something that'll really cut, if possible.
     
  20. peterpalmieri

    peterpalmieri Supporting Member

    Apr 19, 2005
    Babylon, NY
    passinwind,

    We're playing on one of those mobil band shells, I think if we put the mains on the ground and just have the monitors we may be ok. This past weekend the whole PA was up on stage, it was a house PA not ours so we had no control. I think that caused some resonance issues.

    I am very confident in the other musicians ability to play with dynamics and not go crazy with volume. I will never use a 15 again for many reasons but I was never a fan, if I do anything I'll play 2 12's.

    As for the EUB it's the NS with piezos only. I run both basses through a Lehle 3@1 to give me even volumes between instruments using the internal trim pots and I usually cut the volume slightly on the EUBs preamp. Honestly I'm not convinced that the NS is the one but it is certainly more conventient then my traditional upright. I'm not sure what you mean by diminishing pitch definition.