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Living in Oz...

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by soulgeezer, Jun 17, 2007.


  1. soulgeezer

    soulgeezer Inactive

    Jan 29, 2007
    Northern New Jersey
    Endorsing Artist: Red Zone Effects
    ...seems to be slightly less safe from gun crime than we've been led to believe.

    To paraphrase some of the arguments that have been repeated ad nauseam by anti-gunners in other OT threads:

    Take away the guns and you take away the means of committing gun crime.

    Now, let's see how well that's working out in Australia, a country with one of the strictest gun bans around:

    Gunman shoots 3 in Melbourne

    As they say on the Internet...

    o_rly.jpg
     
  2. Cambass

    Cambass

    Jan 25, 2001
    Australia
    What's your point? Is this just another pissing contest between countries? Just because it's harder to obtain a firearm and some are banned doesn't mean it won't happen. Incidents like these are quite rare in Australia.
     
  3. soulgeezer

    soulgeezer Inactive

    Jan 29, 2007
    Northern New Jersey
    Endorsing Artist: Red Zone Effects
    No pissing contest. Actually, I'm most interested in discussing these comments from the article:

    Take a look at the first paragraph: Without even knowing the details, Howard is willing to "tighten" the ban? Is that reasonable?

    And, take another look at that last paragraph -- If this is true, then what's the point of the ban in the first place?
     
  4. Cambass

    Cambass

    Jan 25, 2001
    Australia
    Sorry I came off strong there.

    It's a fair point but most 'law abiding citizens' don't really need a gun for self defense over here.
     
  5. soulgeezer

    soulgeezer Inactive

    Jan 29, 2007
    Northern New Jersey
    Endorsing Artist: Red Zone Effects
    In a lot of these threads, many people have echoed the comment you made above, thereby giving the impression that there is very little debate about whether or not Australian (and many European) citizens should be allowed to own handguns. But, this article seems to imply that there *is* debate on the topic.

    Also, many have argued that taking guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens somehow limits criminals' ability to get them. Yet, the article quotes a high-ranking Australian official as acknowledging the existence of a black market and easily obtainable illegal guns.

    What is the state of the debate on this point in Australia (and elsewhere) these days?
     
  6. WalterBush

    WalterBush

    Feb 27, 2005
    Yuma, Az
    Full disclosure, I'm a certified Fender technician working in a music store that carries Fender, Yamaha, and Ibanez products among others.
    Neither do most folks over here. The point is, do you want to find out the hard way that you were one of the law abiding citizens who needed lethal force to protect your family, and your own government wouldn't allow you to have it?

    I wouldn't. The police in our country, especially in major cities, often have such slow response times that you'll have been shot dead, raped, or robbed blind at gunpoint by the time they arrive, and the best they can do is take down a description of the perp in hopes of tracking them down.

    Ironically, major cities such as the one I'm thinking of (Oakland, Ca) have some of the heaviest gun restrictions in the US. Yet still, people want to hurry up and give away their ability to protect themselves and their property by claiming that giving up their right to own guns eliminates gun crime. That is a lie, period. It can't be said enough, no matter how sick of pro or anti gun threads people get.

    I don't apologize for coming off strong. A close personal friend of mine was very recently able to defend his home from thieves, and in the process, help take down quite the burglary/crack dealing ring in the area, because he had his gun available when he caught someone robbing his home, and ordered them on the ground. Thieves have been arrested. Property returned. Crack dealers taken into custody. Because one man was allowed to carry a gun, and pull it on his own property until the cops arrived.
     
  7. Aaron Saunders

    Aaron Saunders

    Apr 27, 2002
    Ontario
    With all due respect, this is another case of trying to apply US logic in a foreign country where it doesn't apply.

    What works in America doesn't always work in other places.
     
  8. soulgeezer

    soulgeezer Inactive

    Jan 29, 2007
    Northern New Jersey
    Endorsing Artist: Red Zone Effects
    I disagree -- I believe this is a case of trying to understand whether or not the thinking of people in countries other than the US is as homogeneous as it is often characterized, especially in the face of evidence to the contrary.
     
  9. [​IMG]


    Cmon.... someone so had to post this!


    (I love owls :p)


    But to be on topic, its not surprising really. Its bound to happen anywhere and everywhere. Sad really.
     
  10. AdlerAugen

    AdlerAugen

    Aug 9, 2006
    ngbbs44328f77ced80.jpg
     
  11. ROON

    ROON

    Aug 5, 2006
    Sydney, Australia
    It's as simple as this, Australian's arn't like American's. We don't feel the need to own a gun just so we can "protect our family". However we do have a large amount of blonde bimbo's cruising around in Porche 4WD's because they "need to be in a big safe car". Shooting's in Melbourne happen, but then again, Melbourne has a notorious history for gangland warfare. All I can say is, living in Sydney, I don't see any reason to possess a gun, wether it is for my own personal safety, or whatever. I think it was 3 or 4 years ago, a man whacked an intruder over the head with a baseball bat, the intruder went into a coma and the dude who caused it almost (or did???) get a jail sentance. If he had SHOT the man he would be serving time for murder or man slaughter. As Aaron Saunders said, this is just another example of an American logic being applied to a country where it doesn't apply.
     
  12. Marlat

    Marlat

    Sep 17, 2002
    London UK
    Take a look at the first paragraph, without even knowing the details, Howard is willing to "open discussions on further tightening gun control laws with state leaders". Open discussions? How dare the leader of a country want to open discussions with state leaders on taking actions. That is absolutely outrageous. Opening discussions, I can't believe the nerve of that man.
     
  13. ROON

    ROON

    Aug 5, 2006
    Sydney, Australia
    Why should the details matter? Fact is people were shot with a gun, a weapon, wether the man was a crazed phyco, a depressed man, or a contract killer, that doesn't matter... The fact is someone has obtained a gun and killed people with it. And no offence but what's safer, having many guns circulating and many people possessing a lethal weapon, or hardly anyone possessing them and only people who are daring enough to buy one from the black market having them? I can walk down the street confidently knowing I'm not going to get shot. Some of you may have seen a TB'er's post (I wont mention who's) which stated his friend's brother's friend (I think!) got shot at a young age for throwing a snowball at a car... We do not want this happening in Australia, it doesn't now, and with the current law's , or tighter laws for that matter, it's not going to happen. Us Aussies get along fine without guns now, I don't see why there is a problem tightening gun laws. Not like any of us will really give a crap.
     
  14. ROON

    ROON

    Aug 5, 2006
    Sydney, Australia
    What's wrong with "opening discussions"?
     
  15. Hi Soulgeezer,

    Your questions or points are totally understandable. But in the words of many americans, we don't need a knee jerk reaction. Just like getting rid of all guns, arming up is not the answer either.

    This shooting, which is as rare as rocking horse *hit was going to happen no matter what the gun policies are here. The guy that did this, did it so fast and so calm that no one would have had time to shoot him.

    I work in the building behind the clubs that they came out of. Almost everyone said the same thing. It happend in seconds and even if another person had a gun, their would have been a gun fight in a highly crowded area and made things even worse.

    The cops already know who he is and he will do his time. Our cops here I must admit are damn good. They are super fast, don't screw around and will take someone out no problem.

    I can't even remember at all any shooting in public like this that wasn't a hit. The last shooting I do remember was a revenge killing on cops parked in a car were I now park at a client every day. Not a public I'm having a bad day shooting.

    Your questions are perfectly reasonable and make sense but I believe only given this is an event that happens even occationaly. Problem is it just doesn't. It's years and years apart. Why? Because it's very hard to get guns. Not impossible, but hard.

    If you ask people here by the hundreds or thousands if you want, do you want to carry a gun for safety? I bet the answer will be, Why? I don't need one. I don't know how to back this but I'm confident it will be a majority answer at least 90% +.

    Ditto on all posts here, and yes the US is VERY different to here. I have spent time in both and the US seems far more comfortable with guns all round. Here, people don't want them in public. Clubs, hunting, sport and collectors are not targeted as bad as long as they pass very strict justification.

    What is with the owls etc. Is this another missconception that a Koala is a bear?
     
  16. Mr_Dave

    Mr_Dave

    Mar 11, 2005
    Melbourne, Australia
    Employee - Basscentre Melbourne
    yeah, maybe the innocent bystander killed who tried to help the woman could have also had a gun for protection! and shot more people! yeah:rolleyes:
     
  17. Couldn't have said it better, the gangland stuffs almost over because they've almost killed all of each other! Yeh!
     
  18. ROON

    ROON

    Aug 5, 2006
    Sydney, Australia
    +1 to all you have said.

    The owl's are just a funny series of pics going around the net. They're good for a laugh. :)
     
  19. shanmag

    shanmag

    Jul 27, 2005
    to conclude...

    australia > america

    :D
     
  20. One other point, I noticed the thread is "Living in Oz", sincerley no disrespect to any American but there's not a hope in hell that I would rather live in the USA than here. There are some very nice parts of the USA for sure and the people are truly good hearted but our living conditions here which include safety are just to good. I would be as cocky as saying the only place I'd rather be would be a Scandinavian country or some parts of Europe like Germany for example.

    Your a very open minded and intelligent person IMO and would be the perfect dude to visit Australia for a reasonable period and gauge this place for yourself. Only problem is.......you may not want to go home! ;)
     
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
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