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Locking with drummer -- kick on & after 3?

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by RHF, Sep 27, 2020.

  1. RHF


    Sep 27, 2020
    Columbus OH
    (1st time poster. Feel free to move if there's a more appropriate forum.)
    I am playing 4/4 rock and country style originals with a drummer who often plays the kick on 1 and the "&" after 3. I am having difficulty locking in with him and feel his kick placement is adding tension in the music (for example, the timing doesn't seem to match the rhythm of the vocal line). I have asked if he might shift to the playing on the downbeat of 3, or even the & before 3. He has tried but tends to slip back to playing the kick on the & after 3. Is this drum rhythm -- kick on the & after 3 -- typical? I am probably described as a low intermediate player and admit I haven't always concentrated on the drum patterns as much as I should. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
    JRA likes this.
  2. Krakmann


    Jan 6, 2009
    Madrid (Spain)
    I really think he should get his basic drum patterns together...
    Ggaa, DrayMiles, Joe Nerve and 2 others like this.
  3. Beersurgeon


    Jul 16, 2010
    I agree with what @Krakmann said!
    LoTone likes this.
  4. I’ve played drums for over 40 years. That pattern can be a very common pattern in country music - depending on the song. So, you really should become familiar with it. Whether he is playing the right part, depends on the song.
    RHF, Ggaa, kevindahl and 11 others like this.
  5. Your drummer is a weird one? I would have to hear it to be certain but as described that would sound all wrong on most rock music. I don't know a lot of country but I can see it working great for a 'hoe down' sort of feel. So long as he hits the 1 every time and is steady you should be able to stay with him.
    RHF likes this.
  6. Sometimes you just have to grin and bear it. If his time's ok and he has the basics together, I'd just roll with it.

    I did a gig a while back and on one tune the drummer turned the beat around mid-tune, putting the snare on one and three and the kick on two and four. I momentarily felt as though my head had been separated from my body. :confused:
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
    strigidae, RHF, TexasHeat and 3 others like this.
  7. mstillman


    Dec 6, 2011
    MetroWest MA
    Or was he (correctly) playing the last verse of "Just What I Needed"? :)
    newwavefrank and Eli_Kyiv like this.
  8. :D
  9. SpazzTheBassist


    Jun 20, 2006
    So he's playing Honky Tonk Woman on everything?
  10. Shalto


    Aug 23, 2019
    Depending on the genre it's not common but nor is it a rare pattern.

    It depends on the song, syncopated kick patterns like that are very common in funk. The delay of the kick by a quaver with nothing in between 2 and the & of 3 really emphasises the hat pattern in that space and is pretty funky if played slow and with conviction (do gah..tish tish do gah). So it might be perfect depending on the song, another pattern with the kick on 1, the & of 2 and the & 3 is pretty common especially for pop punk and early 2000s metal.(do gah do....do gah)

    Basically, if it works for the song don't try and change it, just practice till you internalise it. If it doesn't work for the song, drummer shouldn't be playing it in that song (but you should still learn it because it's common enough you will probably encounter it again in the future)
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
    RHF and jfh2112 like this.
  11. Charley Umbria

    Charley Umbria I'm Really a Drummer Supporting Member

    Jan 28, 2011
    Rock City, TN
    There’s nothing wrong with that particular pattern, as long as it fits the groove of the song.

    However, if that’s the only beat that he can play, then see Krakmann’s post above.

    Option #3 is that you play nothing but “Shook Me All Night Long”...
    Bassdirty, RHF, LowActionHero and 2 others like this.
  12. Shalto


    Aug 23, 2019
    Playing that song all night long would be kinda meta
  13. Killing Floor

    Killing Floor Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2020
    Austin, TX
    If it's you versus the drummer y'all need to work it out. If it creates a challenge with the rest of the band maybe it's something to address. Maybe just ask the drummer to change up the beat on some of the songs.
    Last time I played with a drummer who only knew one good beat was in grade school.
  14. nnnnnn


    Oct 27, 2018
    Plenty of songs use that pattern for at least some sections. Nothing wrong with it in a general sense, but it would be weird to play that kick pattern (or any specific kick pattern) on every song.

    When you say you're having trouble locking in, are you trying to play the same rhythm as the kick drum on your bass? There's no need to do that. It can sound great, but that's something else that would be weird to do on every song and for some songs it just doesn't work at all.
    RHF, kevindahl and Shalto like this.
  15. Charley Umbria

    Charley Umbria I'm Really a Drummer Supporting Member

    Jan 28, 2011
    Rock City, TN
    Good advice. For example, listen to the way that the bass line works around the drum part in “Shook Me All Night Long.” :laugh:
    RHF likes this.
  16. dr doofie

    dr doofie

    Jul 6, 2017
    Give him a double pedal and you can come in anywhere you like cause I guarantee he’ll play all 16th notes...:laugh:
    ShadowGroover likes this.
  17. If I'm playing with a player playing with a kick that's timed wrong, I will concentrate on playing the right pattern for the song while using the high hat and snare as my time reference--disregarding the kick.
    RHF, gebass6, Cal68 and 2 others like this.
  18. dr doofie

    dr doofie

    Jul 6, 2017
    I can see where there would be tension in the rhythm... what’s he playing on hats? 8th notes with the kick like that will really busy it up... if he’s doing that maybe if he plays quarter notes on the hi hat instead?
    RHF likes this.
  19. Shalto


    Aug 23, 2019
    Sometimes sextuplets
    dr doofie likes this.
  20. To me that sounds like an opportunity to really step up your game. If he’s consistently playing on the one then you have what you need to make the groove happen. Anywhere else he plays is garnish; think of it as fills.
    RHF, JimmyM and teh-slb like this.
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