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Loud/Clean/Punchy

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Joseph Sheldon, Feb 25, 2008.


  1. Not to piss anyone off, I read through lots of earlier posts trying to get my answer and I am still pretty unclear. What I'm looking for is to replace an Ampeg B4r. I have an Avatar Neo 4-10 4 Ohm but would consider buying a new cab if necessary. I rehearse with 3 other guitar players and a drummer that hits pretty hard. We don't practice as loud as a large gig but close to it. I play mainly my MM 5 and I find I have to push my head to where both pre gain and post gain are lighting up like Christmas and its starts to bottom out. I have had other cabs with this same head and same problems. I'm looking for hard punchy bright tones that never bottom out and I want plenty of headroom so I don't feel like I'm pushing my amp to hard. I am surely getting a new amp for starters and I do not want a tube power section. It's loud but too warm and furry. I'm not sold on class D digital. My guitarist is an audiophile professional and says the digital amps are nice because they are light and loud but can't reproduce some of the harmonics and richness that amps with huge power supplies have and they don't have the capacitance to hit as hard either. Now I don't want to get into a debate including "D" amps or Tubes Please. I'm thinking of a few different heads but please name others if you think they could apply. GnK 2001, Ampeg SVT -4 Pro, Mesa V-12, SWR 1500. Again loud bright, tight low end, sort of Tool meets STP. I am loosing sleep over the decision and I hate to blow cash only to find I should have spent a few more bucks like I did with this B4R. Tube Pre amps are fine and I think they could possibly help me. If your only gonna tell me I'm a moron don't bother I already know. Just try to be helpful.
     
  2. allexcosta

    allexcosta

    Apr 7, 2004
    Can't go wrong with the GK2001. It kicks the butt of most heads out there. Exactly what you're looking for. Clean, punchy "in the face" tone with no "tubness mudness" whatsoever.
     
  3. amos

    amos

    Oct 23, 2003
    SE Portland Oregon
    Big +1 here. I'd wait to get a new amp before you do anything with your cabs. After the amp, the suggestions won't be "replace your avatar with brand x", it will be add another 4x10, etc. But try the GK 2001 or go with a pre/power setup, the GK pre can be had for cheap.
     
  4. GabeN

    GabeN

    Feb 27, 2006
    Chugiak, AK
    Loud, Clean, Punchy-Pick two or prepare to spend several thousand minimum.

    J/K but it's not far from the truth. GK is a good call as well as most solid-state retups.
     
  5. gismo

    gismo

    Oct 11, 2005
    La Mirada, CA
    GK 2001. Oh yeah. The fantastic thing about this thing is, you can make it as clean or dirty as you want it. It'll punch anybody brave enough to stand up to it in the crotch. Seriously speaking, try one out at the store.
     
  6. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL
    that might be true in a hermetically sealed environment, but on gig, i highly doubt you'd be able to tell the difference. but with that said, i have owned amps that were class D that just didnt feel as meaty as other class D amps.

    regardless, might as go w/ a nice fat mosfet power section. feels like tubes amped on creatine. has that weighty tube like heft, but delivers some excellent pant flapping power.

    i.e. try a nice aguilar db750. it'll make any sonic situation moot. preamp stage does a nice grindy rob deleo thing for sure.

    and heard good things about the mosfet powered mesa boogie gear ala the titan v12 you mention. but unless you really need that second channel, mesa's own "750" sounds like a good match for you as well. the mesa 750 might have a slight edge over the aguilar 750 in that, the mesa uses a pretty sweet semi-parametric EQ section where you can dial in all the lower mid chest thumping punch you want. but i gotta admit, even without the ability to dial in lower mids, for some odd reason, the aguilar's 750 does feel faster under my fingertips, which for my playing, translates to a quicker punch.

    you might wanna pm "poon" who's had both the aguilar 750 and the v12, and his band is pretty dam loud, too. doesnt hurt the guy uses a sweet aguilar s810.

    the GK stuff is ok, but frankly, it might not be gritty enough for you. SWR ditto. and dont bother w/ the ampeg stuff unless you like a slow feeling woolly kinda sound.
     
  7. Fretlessboy

    Fretlessboy

    Nov 29, 2007
    St Augustine Florida
    Endorsing artist GENZ BENZ/HERCULES STANDS/XSonics
    the GBE1200 is also a good contender for all of the above unless the 40 pounds isthe deal breaker.
     
  8. murphy

    murphy

    May 5, 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    I have to say, I think you would be happy with Markbass SA450.
    It is very loud and punchy and clear.
     
  9. Mcrelly

    Mcrelly

    Jun 16, 2003
    Minnesota, USA
    check out the v12
     
  10. nad

    nad 60 Cycle Humdinger Commercial User

    Sep 22, 2005
    Not Mars
    The Overlord of Nordstrand Pickups
    Loud/Clean/Punchy = ThunderFunk

    Although it may not satisfy your "bright" requirement, the treble response is there but you have to search for it sometimes.
     
  11. txbasschik

    txbasschik

    Nov 11, 2005
    Leander, Texas
    Your Avatar 4x10 not giving enough punch? Hmmmm...

    I was thinking of replacing my Behringer 4x10 with an Avatar.

    My husband's bassist came to my show last Friday, and I told him of my plans.

    He said...

    "ARE YOU ***NUTS***!!??!!!???"

    He said my Behringer sounded really great, and that he'd been trying with no success to get that kind of bright, loud, punchy tone out of his Ampeg rig. He said if I were to get rid of that Behringer, he'd buy it from me and make me wish I'd kept it, every time I come hear them play.

    Its the one with the aluminum cones. Heavy thing...100 lbs...but its got what you're looking for. Punch, punch, and more punch! And a good price, too. I got mine from Musician's Friend.

    I'm reconsidering selling it. I think I'm gonna get a rack for my SWR, instead, so I get "warm and furry" when I need to.

    Cherie :):bassist:
     
  12. Dan Knowlton

    Dan Knowlton Sarcasm: Just ONE of the many services I offer! Supporting Member

    Aug 12, 2002
    Palm Coast, FL
    Loud/Clean/Punchy - describes my Genz Benz GBE 1200/Whappo Jr rig. Plus, I can dial in grind when I want it.

    Dan K.
     
  13. amos

    amos

    Oct 23, 2003
    SE Portland Oregon
    This tells me the head is the issue here. GK 2001, Mesa V12, Genz-Benz 1200. Power for days, ability to add another 4 ohm avatar 2x10 or 4x10 depending on transportation

    Uh, I'm surprised you are clipping like christmas with a 1000watt head going into a 4x10. Then again it's an Ampeg head.

    What I would do, and this is just my personal perfecerence, is I'd ditch the head and get something with a lot of really clean power like a QSC or Crown and then the pre of your choice. After that add cabs accordingly. It may take more than a 4x10 to compete with 3 guitars and a hard hitting drummer. A 4x10 is usually enough; usually being the operative word. I'd hang on to the Avatar though.
     
  14. Blues Bass 2

    Blues Bass 2 Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2001
    Davenport Iowa
    Carvin B1500 would do it too.Tons of power,no whimpy power section with it.
     
  15. JanusZarate

    JanusZarate Low End Avenger Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 21, 2006
    Petaluma, CA, USA
    GK 2001RB = Punch, flexibility in tone, and volume.

    It's my weapon of choice for rock, punk, metal, etc.; to top it off, I'm primarily a pickstyle player who has taken some influence from Tool. BTW, Justin Chancellor is currently an endorser of the GK 2001RB - it's what he used on 10,000 Days with his Demeter preamp.

    You owe it to yourself to give a GK amp a test run. :)
     
  16. eff-clef

    eff-clef Supporting Member

    May 6, 2007
    Baltimore,Md.
    Get a Carvin B1500. It is as loud,punchy,and clean as any amp that you'll find! You can also run it at 2 OHMS, which means that you can run another 4 OHM cab to get more acoustic volume. With the money that you would save not buying one of the "Boutique" amps you could buy it(B1500) and another Avatar 410! I have either owned or tried alot of the amps that have been suggested, and it's not even close for bang(loudness, clarity,punch,and warmth) for the buck. The Carvin B series amps are of very high quality.
     
  17. I spoke with a good friend of mine who runs the best music store in West Chest Pa. and he had told me to now that I should try to stay away from Ampeg because it's Basically Chinese. The Mesa is hand built. I'm not sure about any Carvin gear, although I'm sure the expensive amps have some "Tag" money built in but none would be as successful as they are if there was nothing to back it up. I like my Avatar, by far the best sound and tone for the money but it aint built like no Bergy or Epi. Drivers and crossover aside it's turd like but in a cool way. Carvin has been putting amps out for a while rated at 14 trillion watts that have left me lol. Watts are a loosely used term. I just wish I could take 5 of these heads to practice and use them in a real world environment. Someone who sells this stuff should rent out a Tester kit. I've wasted so much money with basses only to end up playing my MM Stingray. I don't mind spending some cabbage if it delivers. Looks like the GnK so far are getting the most votes and that’s cool. I would rather stick with something more accessible in case of repair issues anyway. Thanks everyone. What Crest amps are best for basssss ?
     
  18. Eminor3rd

    Eminor3rd BLAAAAARRGGHH!!

    Feb 10, 2008
    NYC
    Definitely at LEAST check out an Eden WT-800 before you buy. Hybrid amp for the grit when you need, extremely versatile semi-para EQ, onboard compression, 880 watts bridged.

    Side note: A more affordable solution for your volume problems may be a second 4x10.
     
  19. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL
    some thoughts...

    the ampeg stuff i've seen is actually built rather well. and that guy w/ the *best* music store in west chester needs to be reminded that ampeg is mostly in vietnam, not china.

    mesa stuff is mostly handbuilt, but you'd be surprised at how many "pre-fab" parts are made overseas like most other so called handbuilt items.

    carvin makes some quality gear, but i've heard good (their bass amps, their guitars) and bad things (their power amps, and yea, some of their guitars). course, much of their relatively low pricing comes from low overhead due to their direct-to-consumer model, and again, that "overseas" pre-fab thing.

    as for avatar, for the money, they're one of best values i've seen. "turd" like is definitely not something i think of when i say "avatar". and frankly, i'd take an avatar cab over any big manufacturer cab anyday.

    frankly, you just need to take a quick trip to bass specialties in philly, and try everything your ears can possibly take. talking on the internet will point you in the right direction, but a quality day trip to a quality bass shop will be the best thing you and your wallet will ever do for your sound.

    and if you found your amp, why would need a crest power amp?
     
  20. ZolkoW

    ZolkoW

    May 8, 2006
    Hungary, EU
    OFF: maybe your guitarist didn't hear a Walter Woods amp :)

    ON: a vote for EBS NEO.
    I'm using a 210, and have to say, it's BRUTAL. clean, loud (efficient and can take much power) and punchy.
    a 410 could kill :eek:
    on our last gig I've experienced the loudest stage volumes ever, and my little cab could cut through easily, and something that never happened to me before: I had to turn me DOWN. the cab was rised close to ear-level, powered by my 300W head, and two guitars on 4x12s.
    I was really impressed, I've got a not-neo EBS 210, and I'm selling it.
     

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