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LOUD guitarist!!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by LakLnd5, Oct 12, 2001.


  1. Ok, I have a guitar amp question. I've recently joined a rock band with 2 guitarists. We do some pretty heavy stuff (which is a blast) but one of the 2 guitar players has got the LOUDEST rig I have ever heard! It's painful. We've all asked him to turn down during rehearsals, but he claims that he can't. He says that his head (a marshall, the one with 3 channels) is down all the way. I asked him about the VPR button (virtual power reduction) but he claims that running his head in VPR mode is damaging to his tubes. Is that true?
    Also, why would his rig be so loud? The guys got the same head as the other guitarist, and he's half the volume! I know the offender's cabs r 4 ohms, but MAN, is it loud. I wear plugs, but it still hurts!
     
  2. its a case of the "i wanna stand out"
    tell him to shape up or ship out
    :)
     
  3. cb56

    cb56

    Jul 2, 2000
    Central Illinois
    remove some of the power tubes from his amp. whithout him knowing of course:D
     
  4. CS

    CS

    Dec 11, 1999
    UK
    There are a number of reasons why he wont turn down. They are all his fault. Ignoring ego, its lack of knowledge. He probably has a Marshall TSL which are either 50 or 100w. Both of those are too loud for most gigs us mortals will ever do.

    Guitar amps have to be driven hard for some sounds and this is why he is deafening.

    I play guitar in a band and use an AC15. Its 15w into a single 12. I run it at 3/4 volume(s) and use ER20 earplugs. Most of us will never need more than 30w (ever).

    Good luck telling him that he has no idea how to obtain a decent guitar sound. There is a way out and thats to persuade him to use a Hotplate. This is an attenuator which takes the full power of the amp and converts it to heat. They are expensive though.

    The cheapest and easiest option is to look in the wanted ads for a bass player and I am not kidding.
     
  5. I understand that certain sounds need volume, but when he's covering the snare that's just too loud. You nailed it when you mentioned ignorance. It's ignorance of his gear and the music. The weird thing is that he's a decent guitar player and a nice guy (despite of being a good giutar player). I hate to quit the band. I just think the band could be better if we had more "dynamic control".
     
  6. You can do either of two things...

    A) Quit the band
    B) Shoot the guitarist

    I'm afraid nothing else works on guys like these.
     
  7. BassMan2000

    BassMan2000

    Sep 27, 2000
    Canada
    I had the same problem man espically when we played gigs I wasn't even heard :(. So from one 4x12 and Peavey 700 watt head I went to a 1x15 and 4x12 and the same head and a dbx 266xl compressor :D
     
  8. what exactly is his rig? if he's using 2 4x12 cabs, simply have him remove 1 cab. a full stack is overkill in ANY situation, IMO.
     
  9. leper

    leper

    Jun 21, 2001
    cs...15 watts would simply NOT cut it in my band (hardcore ala coalasce, dillinger etc). Both our guitarists use 100 watt marshall 4x12 halfstacks (one a valve-state one a jcm2k dsl). For our style these amps are "sufficient"...if we had a bigger van im sure theyd have full stacks, more watts etc.

    The tsl is basically the same amp as the dsl plus some features, so I can tell youthis much: if he says its down all the way, hes lying to your face. Those amps start to get pretty damn loud around 3 to 4 depending upon how new the tubes are (ie how well biased they are), but below 2 theyre pretty sane (and at about 7 in a small room theyre borderline painful).

    If he insists that he cant get his sound with the volume down lower tell him to get it retubed/biased...helped our guitarist alot, not to mention my ears.

    As for the vpr damaging tubes...bs...1 tubes last pretty long anyway, 2 if you ever see him switch his amp from off to on without like 10 minutes in standby you know he really doesnt care about tube life, and 3 if he likes power amp distortion he should be doing it anyway

    also, right in the middle of practice walk over to his amp and announce to the band what his volume/gain are at...shuv the lie right in his face and hell straighten his **** out

    if none of the above works, just cut the leads to his speakers and laugh as his amp smokes
     
  10. hehehe
    i cut the speaker leads to a guitarists amp once

    not to mention he thought it was funny to put yellow nail polish on the back of my bass, which it did come off hehe. he was at a local band compotition so i went up behind his jcm900 with quaddy and went snip

    they were into the 4th song and i couldnt tell if his amp smoked or not cus of a smoke machine but it sure as hell stunk like plastic and never worked again


    steve
     
  11. The guy has got 2 custom cabinets that he "built himself". When I asked what kind of drivers he put in them, he didn't answer. I did find out that they are 4 ohm cabs, and I think he's running them parrallel which means he's only got a 2 ohm load on his marshall. Maybe that's why it's deafening at 1. But that can't be good for his tubes either.

    I like the covert suggestions: snipping his cab leads, nail polish on the ax...maybe I should booby trap his rig with silly string and a bic lighter!!:D
     
  12. Three guitar players ago, I played with a guy who owned a Marshall JCM 900 w/4 10's. He played very loud and to the point were I blew the speakers out of a Laney cab I had with 2 15's. He would have the thing on 3 and it was painfull, but lower than 3 and he couldn't get "his tone." His amp was just to big for practicing, worked great for gigs but in a basment it was to much. He rarely plays any more because he is pretty much deaf.
     
  13. My guitarist has the tripple 100 head. He had a 4-12, but sold it. He now uses Marshall 2-12 cabs W/vintage 30s in it.
    The amp really sounds sweet. It cranks, but it's not over the top. He usually uses only 1- 2-12 cab up on milk crates. He gets his "sound" by having the speakers up, like monitors.

    Make a deal with him that if he uses one cab elevated, you will mike him through the PA. This will give him the ambiance and the "in your face loudness" (in HIS face- get it?) from his amp.
    Also put him on the other side of the drummer, and the other guitar on your end.
     
  14. What I don't understand is, *if* they need to drive the snot out of their power tubes to get the desired tone, why not build a switchable T-pad power resistor network into a small box inside the speaker box? With a flip of a switch, they could drop by -10 to -20 dB, so they could drive the crap out of their power tubes and still not be ear splitting.

    Those who won't admit it, but actually get off on ear splitting volume will resist this forever. Those who actually want the overdriven tone but at a reasonable practice volume, will consider it.
     
  15. leper

    leper

    Jun 21, 2001
    completely agree with bgavin, and if he doesnt want to build it, marshall sells one, and there are probably a ton of other companies that do it as well

    the huge rig is GREAT for bigger gigs where you need a bit more spread, but for practice you wont want it to be loud, but actually just loud enough.


    wow, that post took like 10 minutes to write...dont drink kids, it makes you type crazy slow :)
     
  16. Before quitting, explain how you find his volume painful (I'm sure you've done this already). Ask if he could position his speakers so they're directed away from you and maybe even in front of you so you don't get the full blast from them.

    I think many guitarists actually become deaf in the range of frequencies they play, so they want it louder than most people like.

    I find my vented Pro-plugs very effective at cutting down the volume in the guitar range of frequencies, but still allow me to hear my bass.

    Good luck!
     
  17. When we were young (30 yrs ago), we used to make the guitarist turn his speaker cab into the wall. I think we had more leverage back then.It may not fly these days.
     
  18. These are all great suggestions, but I think I'll end up quitting the band. I'm starting to feel like it's not worth explaining things to him. I think it's obvious why you need to control your volume, especially in a rehearsal situation. And I'm not sure I want to even deal with a guy who can't see that. Thanks
     
  19. Larry Kaye

    Larry Kaye Retailer: Schroeder Cabinets

    Mar 23, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    If the band is seriously gigging or about to go on tour or something, and you have a lot to potentially lose, then maybe it's worth a shot at trying to convince your appearantly ignorant egomaniac, but "nice guy" guitarist find another sound and to play within the balance framework of your band's music.

    How do the others in the band feel about this guy's volume? Do they agree that he's way too loud? If so, maybe you as a group should give him an ultimatum: either he figures out how to get a satisfying sound at the volume that fits your band or HIS butt is out.

    I've used a "no BS" policy for the last 10 years and frankly, have quit three bands because I would no longer put up with other member's egoes, their being late, their not knowing their parts before rehearsals and therefore not respecting my or anyone else's time, their general immaturity either interpersonally or musically combined with no interest in progressing, their lack of at least average talent without some other redeeming quality like having a place to practice!!!, and/or their lack of possessing a sense of how to run or be a part of a business, which a band, whether some people don't care to accept, is a business.

    In every case, I've been able to "better" myself and in my current band, see www.thecrowdpleasers.net, we have a nice combination of respect, kinship, responsibility, musical and vocal talent, and most of all, we all love to play and want to be accepted and loved by whatever audience we perform for and are willing to make the necessary adjustment to make that happen as often as possible. If they think I'm too loud, I turn down. If I think our vocals are not loud enough, we turn them up. If I can't hear the keyboardist, they turn him up. If the drummer is too loud, he plays easier.

    Sorry for the long editorial, but there's got to be a very highly compelling reason to put up with anyone or any band who has any combination of the above issues.

    Good luck and find another band!!!


    LKaye
     
  20. Wow Larry, it sounds like you've got a pretty ideal situation. I, unfortunately, have also been through this over and over again. I've quit a LOT of bands. Why is there such a lack of understanding for what makes a band work? The loud guitar player is just the tip of the iceburg when it comes to counter-productivity with this band. And it's not just the one guy.

    Musically, the band is decent. The drummer and I work really well together (which is one of the few reasons I haven't quit yet). But the other guys have this weird idea of how to rehearse, of how to discuss business, and of what a "working band" really is.

    My problem is that I came from a freelance background. I'm use to keeping things business-like and efficient. So I usually just keep my mouth shut, learn my parts, and play. But the other guys always get into personal arguments, or forget to learn tunes, or lecture each other in the middle of rehearsals about gear. . . I get so frustrated.

    Sorry to ramble on about it, but it's driving me nuts. We're not gigging yet, and I feel like I've been TREMENDOUSLY patient! I have just quit so many bands that I guess I want this one to work out.