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Low-B on Eden Metro or SWR Super Redhead?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Bryan Hassing, Mar 25, 2002.


  1. Hi: I have seen a number of posts on this bulletin board indicating the Eden Metro and SWR Super Redhead combos provide good reproduction of a low-B even at high volumes. This just seems counter-intuitive to me. How is it possible these 2x10 combos can reproduce such low notes well without the help of a 15 or an 18?
     
  2. some guy#2

    some guy#2

    Feb 3, 2001
    I think the "answer" is; engineering.

    I have some home speakers with 6" drivers that claim to dip down to around 28Hz!
    Best speakers I've ever owned.
     
  3. bassmanjones

    bassmanjones

    Feb 23, 2002
    Boston, MA
    From my limited understanding, it's a combination of cabinet design (physics) and speaker design and magnet size. Essentially, higher quality product plus properly designed cabinet equals better low note sound production.
     
  4. Wxp4759cb

    Wxp4759cb

    Nov 23, 2000
    Kansas City, MO
    Don't forget the BAM. Best B I've ever heard.
     
  5. phil_chew

    phil_chew

    Mar 22, 2000
    Asia
    I have tried the Super Redhead. I believe you are not really hearing the fundamental low B note. The upper harmonics make you think you are hearing it. The low frequency response of the speakers is 45Hz at -3db. The low B note is around 30Hz.
     
  6. Gard

    Gard Commercial User

    Mar 31, 2000
    Greensboro, NC, USA
    General Manager, Roscoe Guitars
    31.5 Hz actually. You will hear some of the fundamental, the specs you're quoting from are where the cabinet starts to roll off lows, not where it stops reproducing them. Be careful quoting specs, because the numbers can be confusing. For example, the SVT 810 cabinet (the classic style, not the new PR series ones) starts to roll off at 60Hz. The E string on a bass is 40Hz, so how much fundamental do you think that cabinet is reproducing? Always make your final choice with your ears, not your eyes (i.e. reading spec sheets).

    That said, I've played each of these combos extensively, right next to each other with the same bass in the same room. I'd get the Metro in a second over the Redhead, much meatier sounding, more power, more flexible (two channels), and really solid lows (handles a B without breaking a sweat at all). Oh yeah, it's less expensive too!! The Redhead is a great amp, but my preference is for the Metro.
     
  7. LizzardTom

    LizzardTom

    Mar 16, 2002
    I definately agree with Gard. Eden Metro all the way. I'm a big fan of Eden products. I have had SWR gear,but I prefer Eden. I was also an Ampeg lover for years. Never looked back since I bought my first Eden cab.
     
  8. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    The Metro handles the low B pretty well as a standalone at very high volumes. It handles it even better with an extension cab.

    Based on my experience with the Super Redhead, it does not handle the low B very well at all, above moderate SPLs. But it does handle it pretty nicely with an added extension cab.

    The Peavey BAM combo handles the low B better than either of these, but isn't quite as loud.
     
  9. I'll suggest that most bassists have never actually heard an accurate low B.

    This isn't meant to diss anybody, but to point out that commercial bass cabs do not reproduce low B accurately. Therefore, most have never heard it. -6dB or -10dB isn't even close at all.

    The comments about a 10" driver projecting low B and being very loud, etc, etc, are all indications the bassist has never actually heard low B, but only the harmonics of low B. Any bass cabinet of reasonable merit can reproduce 62 Hz without difficulty, and that is the 2nd harmonic of low B.

    You cannot get low frequency extension, loud volume, a small driver, and a small box. It just doesn't happen and something has to trade off to gain the other parameters. The engineering is bound to the laws of physics.

    There are plenty of 10" subs that will get all the way down, but none of them are very loud.
     
  10. Could somebody briefly describe the measures of speaker response and output (ie -6dB, Frequency Response, Tuning Frequency)? Alternatively, if you're aware of a thread on this bulletin board or web site that does the same. Essentially, what specs should a buyer look at to compare apples to apples? Thanks

    Bryan
     
  11. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    The best way to determine what will work for you will not be a spec sheet, it will be with time spent actually trying gear out. I know it sucks if you don't have said gear within a reasonable proximity but hey, that's life.

    People get hung up on power handling figures or partial specs (knowing how steeply a cab rolls off is almost as important as where this occurs).

    Specs aren't going to really tell you how accurate the reproduction will be, how clear or muffled your mids will be, how smooth or harsh the highs, that's where the most delicate of tools, your ears come in.
    Specs will get you in the ballpark. I'm concerned with impedance, beyond that it's not all that important, nowhere near as important as whether or not I like it and it can easily get as loud as I want or need.

    I'd listen to people I trust for an "as accurate as possible" description over relying on specs.

    I'm one of the few who has had a rig that produced the fundamental of a low B, years ago. It was a ridiculous rig, most pros playing the kind of gigs I was playing wouldn't be dumb enough to carry it around;). IME it's not necessary.
     
  12. Thanks for all the responses so far. Since the message "test the amp for yourself" keeps coming up, are there particularly good ways to test an amp? Every music store I go to seems to have only a few amps/cabinets hooked up to electrical power or amps-to-cabinets, etc. Have you heard of music stores allowing testing an amp on a gig or having liberal return policies in order to test an amp out in a realistic setting? It's usually a constant din of guitar players playing 900 notes per minute with the amp set to 11 in the music stores I go to, so it's a bit difficult to hear an amp myself. I'd lke to find out how to get a good feel for an amp under load. Thanks

    Bryan
     
  13. Wxp4759cb

    Wxp4759cb

    Nov 23, 2000
    Kansas City, MO
    Alot of online dealers have return policies.