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Low End Clarity Live?

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by BernardBass, Jul 2, 2014.


  1. Howdy folks,

    I don't really know what I'm talking about so please forgive me if I'm talking pants here....

    I have a fender Jazz Geddy Lee sig, with an audere pro jz3 model preamp installed (PU mixing Vol/Bal + 4band eq) and standard Geddy MIJ pickups.

    My Amps are a hartke hydrive 5210c with a hartke 115XL cab attached.

    Im just wondering how do i get that lovely clear deep bass sound without the muffle and solid clarity!?

    Is it possible to achieve this live with the kit I have or not?

    Do I need to purchase a compressor? Do I need new pickups more focused on the bass? Or is it a new amp/head/cab Im looking at?

    Any help, tips or advice greatly appreciated :)

    Cheers!
     
  2. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    I believe that if you can't get a sound that works for your style out of any working rig, I ain't blaming the amp ;) But define what a clear deep bass sound is to you, and use examples of bass sounds that you're aiming for, and maybe those familiar with the rig you have can suggest something.
     
  3. Phalex

    Phalex Semper Gumby Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    G.R. MI
    IME the sound guy is the one who dials in "that sound". If you don't have PA support, it's an uphill battle.

    From a stage rig, you may not be able to hear it even if you have "that tone". The long wave form of the low end takes a bit of distance to bloom.
     
    Joedog and Kustom_Thunder like this.
  4. Smooth_bass88

    Smooth_bass88 Groove it Supporting Member

    Yeah, give us an example, like: I want my bass to sound more like ----- , and less like ----- .
     
  5. Ric5

    Ric5 Supporting Member

    Jan 29, 2008
    Colorado
    Perhaps a line out from your rig to a powered sub.

    Perhaps a bass eq pedal.

    Also with the Audere if you boost treble, and boost bass, and boost high mids and boost low mids then it may get a little too unclear sounding.
     
    BernardBass likes this.
  6. Zooberwerx

    Zooberwerx Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 21, 2002
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Where's your EQ set now? I mean both the bass and amp.

    The Hartke tone section is a strange agent (Fender-esque? Baxandall?) where 12:00 across the front does not equal flat response. Here's the manual, check out pages 9-10:

    http://www.samsontech.com/site_media/legacy_docs/LH54105210_OM_v1.pdf

    The tone controls are interactive, as described, and the suggested settings are a great starting point. I've used both Hartke amplification and still use Audere preamps. Muffled? Not on your life.

    Riis
     
  7. klokker

    klokker

    Jan 7, 2009
    Steele City, NE
    Weekend warrior here, so take my input on those terms. Deep clear low end like you hear out of car or audio system isn't really an option. Plus as others have said, what you hear on stage has little to do with what the audience hears. Most of the time it's best to cut out the super deep stuff, at least live, it's just mud. As a rule, again IME, super low end is just mud and muck as you seem to be discovering. Live sound and recorded sound are two completely different animals. What you hear on a recording is so mixed and contrived and controlled that its unrealistic live, again IME.

    In the church I play at they have all the subs, $100,000 sound board etc. and they think they want that super clear low end. Really, it just usually ruins the mix.

    Go after the sound you want if you wish, maybe you'll find it. But be open to other options. Like everything there is the ideal that is presented by the marketplace, and the reality of the real world. But the real world isn't bad. Good luck.
     
    BernardBass likes this.
  8. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Fender. Baxandall is the 2-band Ampeg B-15 EQ that has pretty flat response.
     
  9. Zooberwerx

    Zooberwerx Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 21, 2002
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Yeah, that's it! Thanks for the clarification.

    According to the manual, flat response is (bass) 2.5, (mids) 10, treble 0 or something like that. They're also interactive: adjusting one will influence the response of the other two.

    Riis
     
    BernardBass likes this.
  10. How does it sound without the extension cab? Possibly they don't blend well to your ear, always a risk with non matching cabs even when the same brand.
     
  11. Sorry have been working lads...

    Ok so on the amp my settings are:

    limiter on
    Tweeters off (switch on the back of the amp)
    bright switch off
    Bass 4
    Middle 5
    Treble 2

    My bass (Audere preamp)
    70/30 split neck/bridge
    High mid - 4.5
    Low mid - 5.5
    Bass - 5
    Treble - 4

    If I push the bass up on the preamp past 5 i do end up with a bit of a muffled tone.

    Also on the wiring for the Audere, I may have done it arse ways... I had 3 ground wires (1 from each pickup and bridge) so on the Audere I clamped all 3 together to the ground and removed the grounding plate...

    Thanks for the docs and tips!!
     
  12. They actually compliment each other quite well...I think. The 2X10 gives great mids and higher tones while the 115 gives great subs/lows.
     
  13. Lovely fat bass tone like in ACDC - love hungry man (hahaha i know poopie bassist) probably produced to crap so impossible. Im in an AC/DC cover band at the moment...for a bit of a giggle

    I love Bernard Edwards...J Jamerson... Bootsy Collins... Billy Bass... Louis Johnson...Billy Sheehan...Cliff Burton... Rex Brown.... Jaco etc...And I spec'd my kit out around most of the above (built a custom fretless from an ibanez soundgear to get the billy bass/bernard edwards/jamerson sound) but that was well before joining the ACDC band.

    I know its the gear as my 15year old fender rumble 100 has incredible low end, and with the mid scoop, it sounds class! Real lovely warm but clear low end.

    So Im thinking Ill need to probably buy a new rig? :crying:
     
  14. Haha Im the "sound guy" for the band :p

    We have no sound engineer for pub gigs, only venues.
     
  15. Yet you're unhappy with the sound, can't have it both ways.
     
    Tazz likes this.
  16. Its when I push the amps playing live and try increase the low end it gets muddled.
     
  17. HPF3 from fdeck for cleaning up low end. It lets you get more of what you want while curtailing the mud.
     
    BernardBass likes this.
  18. Sorry just to add - I do flick between low z and high z modes quite a bit, early acdc stuff is a lot different to the later so its quite handy for that.
     
  19. looks like a nice piece of kit!
     
  20. Tazz

    Tazz

    Jan 21, 2014
    England
    This may seem counter intuitive but I take the 50hz slider on my graphic eq right the way down. It's just mud anyway.
     

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