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Low end?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by bryan bailey, Aug 19, 2003.


  1. The Avatar B410. It says the cab is tuned to 65Hz. And the -3db is at 84Hz. Does this cab good low end, or what? Any users to change my thoughts?
     
  2. PollyBass

    PollyBass ******

    Jun 25, 2001
    Shreveport, LA
    Are you saying it DOES have low end? I've seen lower. In fact, my peavey 4x10 hits lower than that.


    It's not always about low end. To many people think that since they play bass, they should crank the lows and be a woof monster. I remember when I first started playing, I thought the same thing. If you want to shake the windows, thats cool, but thats all you will be doing. Meaning, you won't be heard, just felt. If you REALLY want some low end, just play thru 2 18's and no pre amp! Boy, those were some fun days.
     
  3. redneck2wild

    redneck2wild

    Nov 27, 2002
    Memphis, TN
    Are you looking for Deep Lows or punchy Low Mids?

    Do you play a 4 string in standard tuning or do you tune down?

    Do you play a 5 string (or 6) with a Low B string?

    Do you want to feel the bass or just hear it?

    The low E on a 4 string bass is around 41hz.
    The low B on a 5 or 6 string bass is around 31hz.
    Playing through the cabinet you described, you won't hear the fundamental note but the 1st overtone on everything from an E (2nd string 7th fret) and lower.

    This is a typical frequency response on many Bass cabinets with 10s. It will work fine to hear yourself on stage as long as you have PA support for the lows (or another cabinet).

    There is a tradeoff in cabinet design - you can find a cabinet that produces good volume (high sensitivity) or that hits lower notes (lower frequency response) but rarely both.
    The cabinets that have both are usually very large and heavy and/or are very expensive.
     
  4. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    A couple of things. I've noticed an American custom of buying speakers unheard based on specs and popular opinion. Australians NEVER do that. Why? Because your ears can tell you more in 10 seconds than a 2 page spec sheet and/or a 4,000 word essay, no matter how descriptive it is.

    Go into a store and try one. Hear it for yourself. Everyones perception of "low" is different.

    Having said that, the laws of physics are such that you've gotta at least contemplate this:- a speaker's excursion is at it's greatest at frequencies below the tuning frequency of the box. In this case, 65Hz. This could be a problem when driving the speaker very hard. It's possible to get the speaker moving further than it was designed to. The same can be said for a lot of the commercially available cabs though, so don't let it put you off the speaker. Just be aware of it and back off if the speaker sounds like it's complaining.

    Don't be affraid to add a second cab. Makes a world of difference............
     
  5. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    ditto what petebass said
    use da ears
    and double ditto about using a second cab
    many times i have used two cabs that sounded kinda anemic alone but together were monsterous with plenty low end
     
  6. ihixulu

    ihixulu Supporting Member

    Mar 31, 2000
    getting warmer
    Shall I point out how bad this reads or would you like to yank the foot out of your mouth on your own?
     
  7. ESP-LTD

    ESP-LTD

    Sep 9, 2001
    Idaho
    I don't believe most folks study the specs much at all except for how many watts a cabinet can tolerate before catching fire (that one seems to captivate folks).
    :p
     
  8. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I used to have a sig that read "If I say something that can be taken 2 ways, and one of those is somehowe bad or offensive, well I probably meant the other one".

    I wasn't throwing any insults or dirpersions....
     
  9. Mcrelly

    Mcrelly

    Jun 16, 2003
    Minnesota, USA
    Yes, use your ears and if you can try the cab on a gig or in the most common location that you'll be using it.

    here is my story: I bought one EA CXL-112L and got it just the other day. I wanted to show it to a friend who works for a small music store and is always buying different cabs, guitar etc. He played the EA for a little while trying his guitar and amps, then mind. then he started saying the EA lacked the bass note fundamentals "The first, lowest note of a harmonic series. The Fundamental frequency determines a sound's overall pitch." and he proceeded to play through an eden 210(not sure what model exactly) and I heard that it 'went' lower than the EA.

    I then took my cab to church for practice. When I plugged it in and started playing it sounded MUCH better (lower) than it did at his store next to the eden.

    So, my question would be "how low is low enough?"

    bass is about lows, but its also about overall tone, cutting through mids, and whatever other characteristics you need in a cab.

    listen before you buy if you don't have money to burn or can't return if you don't like it.
     
  10. I want a punchy cab that the sound can be felt and heard. Punchy, but pants flapping.
     
  11. chardin

    chardin

    Sep 18, 2000
    Sounds like you want an Ampeg 8x10 along with the requisite SVT head. MPF => Maximum Pant Flapping.
     
  12. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    If you're on an Avatar type budget, probably you want to check out the B212 w/Deltas.
     
  13. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I get that by putting a nice 15 under a 4x10 (or 2x10 for some gigs). The 10's give the punch, the 15 flaps the pants. An 18 would flap the pants even more but it does sound different to a 15. There's no substitute for big speakers when it comes to bottom end IMO.
     
  14. seansbrew

    seansbrew Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2000
    Mesa AZ.
    How would you know about American customs ? And oh yeah, I think its incredible that you know for a fact that all Australians never buy bass equipment based on specs, I mean, to be in all those places at once, tuly incredible
     
  15. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I can't believe you were offended by that! Lighten up. I based my comments on the amount of threads on here that go along the lines of "Should I buy a brand A or brand B. Which sounds better, I need to know because I won't be hearing it before I buy it". Or the other thread that pops up a lot is the "look how much damage UPS did to my cab. I bought it unheard online and they did a bad job delivering it".

    I'm telling you now I know a lot of bass players here and NONE of them bought their gear unheard or had it delivered by a freight company. I

    As I said before, it wasn't intended as an insult, just an observation.
     
  16. Personally Pete, I thought it was funnier than hell. Oh well.
     
  17. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA
    BBL.....could you explain to us how funny hell is, so we all have a proper point of reference?

    aww, just messing with ya.

    I wasn't offended by the comment, but it was stupid to say something like that. Not stupid from a politically correct way, but stupid to base your thoughts of American bass players on what you read here.

    -Mike
     
  18. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    C'mon it's Kaz's thread and he needs help. Lets focus on that. If you have any problems with what I say or how I say it, PM me.
     
  19. D.A.R.K.

    D.A.R.K. Supporting Member

    Aug 20, 2003
    Virginia
    i would like to comment that alot of punch and solid low end comes from really great power, i believe it's just as important as the speakers...i've heard so many cabs come to life when you put a crown or crest amp on them...
    i ended up with 2 jbl mpro 1x18 cabs for lows, one has a built-in crown amp which delivers 2100 watts peak, and is matched to the speaker specs....the other cab is a sattelite with no power. the powered cab has 2 channels, a built in crossover at 125 hz, and can be used as either lows or highs for the extension cab. there's even a phase reverse for the sub! a great value...i paid under 1,000.00 for the powered cab at a gtr ctr sale.
    massive lows, punchy, with just one cab.
    add the second and your eyes blur on the low b. very portable, no power amp rack, small dimensions, stereo power, built in x-over, great casters, crown power...need i say more?
    check one out!
    cheers!
    d.k.
     
  20. vanselus

    vanselus

    Sep 20, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    None
    Aussies like beer.