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Low freq in kickback combos

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by McGryff, Dec 31, 2005.

  1. I went to good ol' GC the other day and tested out some GK Backline stuff (again), hoping to decide on something in the next month or so. I tried out a Backline 600 hooked up to a 2X10" cab, and I also tested the Backline 210 combo (also a 2X10"). What I heard interested me... the 2X10" cab sounded deeper than the 210 combo. Assuming all things were even approaching equal, why would this be the case? The only explanation I could think of would be that by designing the combo to be a kickback style, the enclosure wasn't tuned as well as the standard, non-kickback BL 210. Anybody with experience (especially designers/manufacturers!) care to chime in on this? Do kickback cabinets/combos sacrifice some low end response for the ability to tilt back 45°?

    Thanks to all who care to contrbute.
  2. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    If the volume of the tilt-back box is less than the standard model while using the same drivers it won't go as low. That would be the case if the exterior dimensions were the same except for the chopped off rear corner.
  3. Bill, thanks a ton for the response. I greatly respect your opinion & expertise on these matters, of course. I don't think the volume is less on the kickback model; it's the same head (Backline 600) in the 2X10" combo. There's a GK rep floating around Talkbass somewhere... if he doesn't chime in I may PM him about this.

    So, what if the volume (or output, if that's more accurate) is the same, since it's the same head? Would that cause a decrease in volume or low end if the rear corner was chopped off, as opposed to a non-kickback cab?
  4. Jeff A

    Jeff A

    Oct 22, 2005
  5. By "Volume", Bill was refering to the region of space within the cabinet.[/QUOTE]

    Jeff, of course you're right. Not quite sure what I was (or wasn't, obviously) thinking there. Must be my brain's still slow from the holidays. Lack of sleep. Yeah, that's it. :rolleyes:

    Thanks for pointing that out! :D
  6. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Quite right, though some Trekkies might think you're describing the Gamma Quadrant. Beware the J'm Haddar.
  7. Bill is exactly right. There is less volume (space) in the backline 210 combo so it's not going to have as much low end. But also keep in mind that the backline combo will have less low end if it is in the tilted back position because it will lose floor coupling. If you have the combo in the upright position, it'll have better low end response.
  8. Dkerwood


    Aug 5, 2005
    Also consider that the tiltback combo is pointed at your head, where the cab was likely aiming at your knees or your waist (unless GC had it sitting on top of a insanely high stack, which for them is likely).

    So of course it's going to sound different...
  9. surprsingly enough, both the 210 combo & 2X10" cabinet were set up similarly! They were at about the same position (on the bottom shelf of some kind of metal shelving unit). The cabinet wasn't stacked on top of or under anything, and the combo was in the upright position. Wow, go GC.

    But I'm glad to learn that there's a physical/acousitic reason for my perception of the 210 combo. Now I'll have to decide if the compromise in low end is worth the convenience of having a kickback combo. Of course, I'd eventually pair it with another cabinet for some shows.
  10. indykrap


    Nov 6, 2004
    Can you take the head section out of the backline combo? Cause i've got a little bit of GAS for the backline 210, and that would sell it for me.