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Man, are we really this sensitive? Do we need to be offended THIS badly?

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by two fingers, Oct 9, 2017.


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  1. Nah. Don't be silly.

    22 vote(s)
    44.9%
  2. Absolutely. How can you be so blind?

    13 vote(s)
    26.5%
  3. I am going to vote present because I ain't going there. (Carrots)

    14 vote(s)
    28.6%
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  1. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    This is NOT a political discussion. Do not take it there!!!!!!!

    Mods, if the mere presence of this post offends people, let me know and I'll ditch (delete) the whole thing. Based on the reaction to the ad itself....which I simply cannot comprehend....I may be the one out of the loop here. So if it's a grenade, let me know and I'll put the pin back in.


    How many of you think that Dove soap company is "racist"? How many of you think that fat old white guys smoking cigars in a "back room" met and figured out a way to intentionally run an ad like this NOT just to be clever graphics, rather to show how black = dirty and white = clean?

    Seriously? Are people so DESPERATE to be offended that they would actually think this?

    Gimme a break.

    Dove Apologizes for ‘Racist’ Soap Ad That Turned Black Woman White

    (For those who don't like to click links, it's a Yahoo! news story showing an ad where a (gorgeous....not that it matters....just sayin') African American woman lifts her shirt. And rather than revealing her body it's a white woman underneath. See pic below.)

    Do you look for ways to be offended?

    (Yes, I get the irony here. I am offended by their being offended. But I'm not really offended per say. A state of confusion is more likely where I am.)

    Are you super sensitive? If you are, are you constantly MISERABLE? Honestly, I couldn't live like that.

    The point is, you can't just jump on board the bandwagon and be offended with them. Why? Their reasoning is.....well.....ridiculous, in my view. They can't honestly believe that Dove intended to show that black = dirty and white = clean. Really...... come on now. Even if they (Dove execs) honestly felt that way (which they don't) they wouldn't let that get out simply because it would be a stupid business decision.

    It's not as though they used computer graphics to show a woman washing off her blackness to reveal white skin. Both women are dressed. Neither are currently using the product. I think it was intended to show the opposite of what the offended believe. The graphic was intended to show that their product can work for multiple skin types.....and work for all kinds of people. It could have just as easily been in reverse....with the white woman revealing an African American woman underneath. It was simply a cute graphic where you think the first woman is about to get naked and then another woman is revealed. (Kinda clever actually.)

    But even before you get to that logical point..... Can you honestly get to the place where you BELIEVE that the company execs FEEL that way? Can you put your brain in the freezer and even let you heart believe that real people sat in a room and PLANNED an ad INTENTIONALLY to put down a race of people?

    If you are offended by that ad, please help me to understand. If you honestly believe that the intent of the ad was to show that black = dirty and white = clean, convince me.....using something other than the way it makes you feel personally. I need some evidence of past transgressions or.....something.

    Honestly, I think this is part of the reason we are so divided in this country. Things like this, that actually mean nothing (in my view), get turned into something. The flames get fanned. Then is just turns ugly. And I don't even mean that politically speaking. Just in general, we are fragmented.

    For the record, in case it's not obvious, I am neither racist nor sexist. (Sad that i have to say that.)

    But I am open to learn here. If you are offended, or even if you can understand why someone else would be offended, help me. I just can't get there on my own. I don't want to argue. I just want to know how you get to the place where you are offended by the ad. I won't slam your views. I am simply looking to expand my own.

    This is NOT a political discussion. Do not take it there!!!!
    dove.jpg
     
  2. bholder

    bholder Affable Sociopath Supporting Member

    Sep 2, 2001
    Vestal, NY
    Received a gift from Sire* (see sig)
    I'm not terribly offended, personally, but I think it was an incredibly stupid move and understand those who are offended.
     
  3. Ha, I was watching the exact same story on GMA & thought the exact same thing.
    I want to quote George Carlin, but that might take this where the OP asked for it not to go.
     
    Pbassmanca, Oddly, Deak and 1 other person like this.
  4. It's gotten so bad that I'm guessing a lot of PR departments spend a lot of time apologizing for little faux pas that send the public into a wild frenzy.
     
    Pbassmanca, Deak and two fingers like this.
  5. slobake

    slobake resident ... something Supporting Member

    On the link it said Dove has a history. Okay, what else have they done? Also if you click on the link Three Fingers provided and then click on the link for NayTheMua you can see that the black woman took her shirt off an revealed another woman under that. The third woman looks Hispanic to me, not sure though. I am also not sure what that means.
     
    two fingers likes this.
  6. Gorn

    Gorn

    Dec 15, 2011
    Queens, NY
    Well, sometimes Dove is on sale at the stop and shop so I buy it. That's all I got.
     
  7. Joe Nerve

    Joe Nerve Supporting Member

    Oct 7, 2000
    New York City
    Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
    I didn't see the ad but my wife told me about it. Didn't read the article either, but think I got the idea.

    I have a lot of thoughts regarding that, most of them in agreement with you. I do think sometimes people take calculated risks in advertising. The ad, IMO, was either incredibly boneheaded - or taking a very well educated and calculated risk. It would be tough to elaborate on that without getting political. I don't think it's racist however. At best, I think it's quite the opposite if unintentional.

    People gotta get mad at stuff these days though. And they have to keep pounding wedges between us all.

    What makes things even more divisive is that to most of the people that the ad offends, you and I have no say or valid opinion. I've only gotten into one or two arguments on Facebook in the past year and a half. It ended when people started labeling me as privileged because of the color of my skin. I realized the futility of continuing and now I stay out of this kind of BS. Except for here on Talkbass cuz it's the ONE place we're all united :).
     
  8. slobake

    slobake resident ... something Supporting Member

    I vote baffled.
     
    Tony B. Filthy and two fingers like this.
  9. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    Connecticut
    While I try not to look for things that are not there, the fact is, this is not the first time this kind of thing has happened, and never in the other direction - never. Do I think the intent was to be "racist"? No. Do I think there was a conscious choice to change to a similar looking model with lighter skin, lighter hair, and lighter colored shirt? Yes. Associating darker skin with dirty is racist.

    At best, it was incredibly poor judgment, and these people are getting paid to look for things like this.
     
  10. It's ironic actually, because it was intended to show diversity & instead the public used it for another reason to be divisive.
     
    Deak, Pbassmanca, btmpancake and 7 others like this.
  11. bholder

    bholder Affable Sociopath Supporting Member

    Sep 2, 2001
    Vestal, NY
    Received a gift from Sire* (see sig)
    I suspect it was another intentional but failed attempt to be "edgy". In any case, at best stupid, at worst, racist.
     
    47th Street, slobake and two fingers like this.
  12. project_c

    project_c

    May 8, 2008
    London, UK
    1. This isn't the first time Dove were unintentionally racist

    2. Some people find some stuff more offensive than you, don't worry about it. If I walk into a room and fart, and it smells like stale onion bhaji and lime pickle, my girlfriend would be a little offended. The same stale fart would make my male friends laugh and then they would carry on with their day. Some people are sensitive to some stuff, others to other stuff.

    When you advertise stuff to so many people, you have to consider that some of them may find some things more offensive than others. Race is a sensitive issue, and things like this advert are not helpful.

    3. I am not offended by the advert and i think it's innocent, but i get why others don't like it and i have zero sympathy for the marketing idiots who come up with crap like this.
     
  13. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    So the fact that later in the ad the white woman takes off her shirt to reveal a Hispanic woman....does that mean white women are dirty and Hispanic women are clean?
     
  14. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    That was my first thought. The intent was to show that their product can work for all races and skin types. There was no cleaning involved in that part of the ad. So how would it imply that the black woman "cleaned herself" to reveal a white woman? She took off her shirt. She didn't wipe off her blackness.
     
  15. Ha, I thought the 3rd person was an Asian women, but I can't seem to find the actual ad now, only stills of the particular two being discussed ad nauseam.
     
  16. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    So, if they didn't know it was racist, they should have known?

    Again, the white woman taking off her shirt to reveal a Hispanic woman later in the ad.... What does that mean if we're interpreting thoughts and intentions?

    Also, what was the other example of Dove being unintentionally racist? Clearly, I'm late to the game here. Maybe they HAVE established a pattern.
     
    pjbassist likes this.
  17. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    I couldn't remember either, but was going off of an earlier comment from @slobake .....which may have been a mistake. :roflmao:
     
  18. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    Connecticut
    No. But as I said, this has happened before in ads, and it is always in the lighter is "better" direction. Regardless of intent, these execs are paid to approve these ads, and should be aware of this.

    Just like the beer ad that said their beer was to remove the word "no" from the vocabulary - was it advocating rape? I hope not. Should it been approved? No way. Intent or appearance, these things have to be observed.
     
  19. Ah, could be Pinay:

    upload_2017-10-9_9-33-31.png
     
    two fingers likes this.
  20. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    And this is where I get confused. If various women are revealing other various women, the order matters? They are not cleaning themselves. They are getting undressed.

    I don't know. I appreciate your points. Really, I do. I am just not getting there.

    As for the beer ad, that was much more clear. It obviously implied that if you give their product to your intended sexual target you are more likely to break down their walls. Those dots are easily connected. These dots in the Dove ad are, at best, a stretch.
     
    pjbassist likes this.

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