Markbass said it was ok , but.......

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by chuck65, Jun 26, 2019.

  1. chuck65

    chuck65 Supporting Member

    Jun 6, 2010
    Orange Park FL.
    This is my current situation. I'm running 775 watts at 4ohms per side. All cabs are rated 8ohms. 800 watts for the twelves and 400 watts for the tens. What I am wondering is, does it matter which cabinet comes straight off of the power amp and which one is used for an extension? I know the power amp doesn't care . It will do any combination down to 2ohms. I'm just wondering which one should take the first hit.. I'm running them mixed right now. Any and all questions , suggestions , and comments welcomed ! THANKS !! PS. Until now I have been a purist when it comes to not mixing cabs.. but this is what I have on hand sooo...
  2. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
    Doesn't matter.
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  3. Kro


    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Any reason why you went this direction and not the reverse? I'd assume the 210s to have better power handling.
  4. chuck65

    chuck65 Supporting Member

    Jun 6, 2010
    Orange Park FL.
    Those are the cabinet ratings at 8ohms.. I was a little surprised myself at the capability of the single twelve
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  5. chuck65

    chuck65 Supporting Member

    Jun 6, 2010
    Orange Park FL.
    Thank you for the reply sir :)
  6. Both cabs get hit at the same time since it isn't feasible to measure the speed of electricity down the wires.
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  7. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
    800 watts for a 112? Are you sure both cabinets are rated using the same metrics?

    My hunch is that the 112 is rated using peak units while the 210 is rated using RMS units. That's either a 2:1 or 4:1 difference depending on the definition used.

    This topic comes up often, I deal with it often when helping players match speakers to an amp. Nobody wants to unintentionally damage a speaker.
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  8. I was reading it as per pair but still seems off even though the 112 horn things look a lot more serious than the 210's.

    Might be some milage in powering them each set to one side of the amp if maximum ear damage is sought.

    Should really set them in a V and rack to the side. Cabs set apart like the photo gives a max filtered and wobbly bass field out front.
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  9. chuck65

    chuck65 Supporting Member

    Jun 6, 2010
    Orange Park FL.
    They are Richard Bona Ninja 121 . Ceramic Drivers. Spec just says 800 watts at 8ohms
  10. Wasnex


    Dec 25, 2011

    I would be extremely surprised if the speaker can survive long if fed 800W of program material between 40-100Hz, but here's what the product pages says:
    IMPEDANCE: 8ohms
    SPEAKER SIZE: 1x12 in.
    BASS PORT: rear
    TWEETER: 1" compression driver with custom horn
    POWER HANDLING: 800W RMS (AES Standard)
    FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 40 Hz to 20 kHz
    WEIGHT: 45.19 lbs / 20.5 Kg
    WIDTH: 23.23 in. / 59 cm
    HEIGHT: 14.76 in. / 37.5 cm
    DEPTH: 16.73 in. / 42.5 cm

    MARKBASS | Products | Traveler 121 Ninja
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
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  11. Low Class

    Low Class

    Jul 4, 2005
    I'm hearing your rig all the way to my house Chuck!
  12. chuck65

    chuck65 Supporting Member

    Jun 6, 2010
    Orange Park FL.
    Thank you for the input. This cabinet set up is the result of the “ band “ wanting bass on both sides of the drum kit citing that sometimes there are no monitors for the Bass on stage , and there is a guitar player on each side..They swear this is how the last guy did it and they loved it. Don’t know if it sounded good , but I guess they were at least able to hear it.
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  13. dBChad


    Aug 17, 2018
    Tavares, FL
    Electro-mechanically, it doesn't matter (especially in a parallel connection). Have you hooked one side up reverse from the other just to see if you notice a difference? I doubt it would be anything the ear could detect, but it's still a free and easy test to perform just to see if there's any sonic benefit to one vs. the other.
  14. Or one tall stack of all 4.
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  15. thetragichero


    Jan 4, 2019
    reminds me of some of those old kustom pa ' stacks'
  16. TheReceder


    Jul 12, 2010
    I heard something when my mouse scrolled over the thread title.... I knew it would be interesting.
  17. arbiterusa


    Sep 24, 2015
    Interesting. That's my favorite cab setup, cabs both sides of the drummer - actually lets me turn down quite a bit and still be heard all over the stage.
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  18. Red Planet

    Red Planet Inactive

    May 29, 2005
    I'm cranky in my old age.
    There are 12 inch drivers available rated for that kind of wattage no one here knows whats in that cab.

    I might stack the two 1x12 cabs on one side and the two 2x10 cabs on the other side, set the master of the poweramp at half way and set volume to taste. I would stack the cabs vertical if you can but roll with it baby.

    Nice rig!
  19. Bassamatic

    Bassamatic keepin' the beat since the 60's

    Since you have 2 separate bass stacks - there is going to be some phase cancellation. Do some experimentation varying the distance between them for best sound.
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  20. Wasnex


    Dec 25, 2011
    The off axis lobing and comb filtering will be the worst issue. IMHO the closer the spacing between cabs the better as it will push these problems to a higher frequency range.

    Note. that the wavelength of 50hz is 22.5' and 100hz is 11.25'. The resultant dispersion patterns are based upon relationship between spacing between the cabs and wavelength.

    See fig 41 and 42 of the attached Bass Array Guide and note how the dispersion pattern changes as wavelength decreases. The spacing between the cabs in both figures is 13.1'. At 50hz when the wavelength is almost double the spacing, you get a strong power alley beaming out from directly between the speakers. At 100hz when the wavelength is slightly less than the spacing, you have deep nulls at 45 degrees left and right.If you double the distance between the two set of speakers, you get the same dispersion pattern one octave lower. Compare fig 42 to fig 43.

    Keep reading through the figures and notice the comb filtering that begins to occur as the spacing between the cabs become multiples of the wavelength.

    Based on these observations, the attached Frequency Wavelength Chart can be used to deduce what happens at higher frequencies with narrower spacing between the two stacks of cabs.

    Whether or not this is a problem is totally up to you. IMHO if the PA is pushing sound to the audience, I don't think it is. But if the bass amp is carrying the room then I personally think the speakers should be tight packed to push the lobing and comb filtering to the highest frequency range possible. IMHO fig 42 in particular illuminates a pretty serious problem. Spacing of 13.1' is probably not that far off the mark if you have the drums on top of risers and place one set of cabs on each side of the risers.


    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
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