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Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by socknroll1, Oct 9, 2011.
I assume you referring to acoustical power, right?
The term coverage and 410's don't go together, IME/IMO. The off axis response is quite poor in most 2x, 4x 6x 8x etc cabinets when identical drivers are oriented horizontally covering the same frequency range. I am definitely biased against 410's and 8x10's though, I admit. I refuse to ever move one again - even if it has fallen on my wife (ok bad example...). Sure a 410 can seem very loud mith a modest amp directly in front of it, but it won't be as loud everywhere on stage or in the room.
The OP's concern about being loud enough from smaller cabs might stem from this issue of poor off axis response, especially if others complain of not being able to hear him. Two 3012LF based two ways with good off axis response stacked vertically and driven by a good amp should do the trick for maximum bang / minimum cab size. Another option which would provide big output from the same watts would be a pair of 3012HO based BFM Jack 12's. Either option in my opinion would be a preferable solution over a pair of 2x10's.
While your point is obviously technically valid, I feel it is quite overstated. As one who regularly gigs everything from a 410 to a Thunderchild with low cross over large horn, and also a few low crossed over mid driver loaded cabs, one must remember that the beaming becomes an issue primarily in the upper mids. And, once a tweeter kicks in, then it is a non-issue again.
While I notice a bit more spread in that 1K centered area with my Thunderchild versus my 410, it is minor, and many bassists actually de-emphasize that 'gank' area in their tone (which is why there are so many popular cabs that have a bit of a hole in the upper mids between the top of the driver and the start of the tweeter).
This upper midrange dispersion is a bit like aerodynamics on a car. It is important on paper, and it makes a difference in real life, but it surely will in no way define the overall sound or performance of bass guitar backline, ESPECIALLY once you get out in the room.
IMO and a lot of IME on this one. That being said, +1 to your recommendation of one version or the other of what I call the 'super twelves'.
I will certainly defer to your vast and highly valued expertise, and I can certainly appreciate that a 410 can work well in many settings. But as I stated, I'm strongly biased against big awkward inelegantly engineered cabs- wait, there I go again!
My argument may have been overwrought, but my intent was to counter the notion of the 410 being the jack of all trades. I've played some frightfully bad rooms where the bass just gets buried in mud or disappears altogether, FOH or no- you know the ones, where the drummer is looking at you wondering if you forgot to plug in and he's yelling, "turn it up!" because he can't hear you even though your cab with a 50lb rack-o-crap on top of it is right there beside the drum riser blasting away where he should be able to hear it, and you're thinking, "jeez, do I need to bring two of these things? I can only fit one in my car as it is! My back is killing me!!" </run-on>.
Now I awake from my 10 year bass nap (so to speak, long story) and find that everything has gotten much lighter, smaller, and immensely more powerful. It seems to me today, the "jack of all" - where one cab can cover nearly every gig in every room is something more like the fEARful 15/6, 1212/6 or similar cab based on these amazing neo drivers. If I have my choice, and I do at this point, I'll happily take the more pack friendly "super 12" option times two. Better still if they both fit in my trunk, out of sight!
I for one am done with heavy cabs. And rambling on needlessly. For now at least.
You are more right than wrong IMO and IME. And, I too would never use a full weight 410 again. I still think the 54 pound 410ULs and 65 pound Berg AE410's are pretty fine cabs, but there would be few if any other 410's currently on the market I would bother with.
Just kind of trying not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, since there are still some nicely voiced and relatively lightweight 410's out there with, in the case of the Berg, some reasonably low crossed over tweeters that hammer hard and sound relatively balanced.
I'm glad this resurfaced, thanks guys. My questions have been answered, great suggestions. I know I woud drool over an SVT stack as much as any other bass lover, but I feel that I I'll probably never buy one, even if I one day get a big car, and a big house, without 25 steps, and grow muscles.
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