Mesa Boogie M6 Carbine too bright with Schroeder 610

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by bassbooty, May 22, 2012.

  1. bassbooty

    bassbooty -Rey Supporting Member

    Jul 4, 2006
    I've had this set up for about 3 years and lately I've been feeling like it's too bright. The Schroeder cab is voiced with a lot of mids and top end sizzle, which with the M6 Carbine is just too much for me lately.

    I love the punch, power, and low end of the M6 though. Any suggestions on an alternative head with the low end & punch characteristics of the M6 without the hyped up top end & upper mids so that it is a better match with my Schroeder 610? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    By the way, I really want to hang on to the Schroeder cab because it's loud and lightweight (78 lbs) and fits in the back seat of my 4 door sedan (unheard of for a 6x10 IMO). Plus the one I have was made to be played & displayed at the NAMM show so some extra love went into it (according to Jorg Schroeder). It also has the red rhino covering which was meant to be shown off at NAMM.
  2. father of fires

    father of fires Commercial User

    Nov 29, 2006
    Chief of Medicine at Damnation Audio
    Well...the problems you describe seem to be caused by the cab. If your amp's eq is limited then maybe you could look into some corrective EQ unit to boost some lows and cut some highs. Maybe a rack unit for your effects loop.
  3. spector_boogie

    spector_boogie No Limit Honky

    Apr 15, 2012
    The Woodlands, TX
    The M6 is hardly "limited" on EQ considering the Voice feature...

    OP, have you tried any of the Voice options yet? There's 4 presets, and from currently owning an M9 I know they work, so why not change it? I used to gig Schro's and they're nice but definitely already "bumped" in the mids because they're designed to. You're basically "boosting the boosted Mids" which you can easily dial out with Voice 1 or 2 of just set it to 3 and use the standard EQ. Where do you have the Mids set? You're aware they're passive, right? So if you have them at Noon they're not "flat".

    Edit: I also see you're playing Wicks which will give you an inherent Mids boost as well. You just have too many mids going on! Still I recommend the 1 or 2 feature first. The manual on Mesa's site shows where the EQ curves are per Voice setting.
  4. Darko74


    May 18, 2007
    Dublin, Ireland
    The Shroeder i had was the opposite. no love went into it. worst cab ever and customer service.
  5. chaosMK


    May 26, 2005
    Albuquerque, NM
    Too much hip thrust
    You might just be getting worn out listening to it by yourself, probably sounds good in the mix (but depends on your mix/style).
  6. jeff7bass


    Apr 9, 2009
    My experience with Schroeder cabs is they tend to be kind of mid-rangey by themselves but sound really good with the band onstage.
    I gotta believe the Mesa has enough EQ to tame it also.
  7. Crabby


    Dec 22, 2004
    Dont give up on this setup yet. You will have a hard time finding another amp with the quality of sound and sheer power then the Carbine. I sold off my Schroeder 212 cab as it really didn't sound sweet enough to my ears but the elements of "light and loud" could not be denied.
  8. lomo

    lomo passionate hack Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2006
    It's the cab. It cannot begin to transduce the massive low end of that head. The head sizzles up top, but is easily dialed back IMO.
  9. spector_boogie

    spector_boogie No Limit Honky

    Apr 15, 2012
    The Woodlands, TX
    This, big time. I've had 4 Schros and used an M-P600 with 2 of them, which at the time had "big bottom" to me, but the Carbine's easily outpace it in the low lows. Definitely a lot of severe roll-off.
  10. I would have to agree with the M6 not being the culprit. They may have tuned that cab to specifically have alot of high end since it was going to be displayed at NAMM, so it would cut thru all the other noise going on around it.
  11. RickenBoogie


    Jul 22, 2007
    Dallas, TX
    Another +1 the problem is NOT the amp, and it does have great eq control. Lose the cab if you can't dial the amp where you want.
  12. bassbooty

    bassbooty -Rey Supporting Member

    Jul 4, 2006
    Thanks for all of the feedback guys!

    I love the power, punch and immediacy of my M6 so much, it's hard to imagine not having that sound and feel any more.

    I also thought about an external EQ as an option and then I remembered that the M9 incorporates the built in graphic EQ. So I made a trip to my local Mesa dealer with my cab and played the M9 through it. They also had the M6 in stock so I was able to A/B the two heads. Using the graphic EQ on the M9, I cut the 2k slider significantly and that did the trick! ;)

    Some may say an external EQ would be a cheaper fix, but I also noticed the extra headroom and punch that the additional power of the M9 provides (although the M6 already has more than enough power and volume with more to spare). I was able to dial in some killer tones by incorporating the M9's compressor. The compressor also helped to tame the mids and highs. Besides the addition of the graphic EQ, that's 2 more reasons to justify getting the M9!

    Maybe I'm just trying to justify spending the extra dough...(LoL)!

    Now I need to try and unload my M6 to help pay for the M9...
  13. sandmann


    Dec 27, 2005
    It is not the cab. I sold my M6 for the same reason. Especially with active basses it was just a tad too much of low end and top end. i think for you the m9 is the perfect amp due to its equalizer.

    Before i bought the m6 i owned a db750. when i first heard the m6 i fell totally in love and sold the db750. no i moved back to a db750 and could not be happier. it was a hot but short love affair. i now stick to my long-term-partner ....
  14. Many who like the basic tone of the M6 but have problems controlling both the wide low end and massive sizzly top end move to the M9, which has much more powerful EQ.

    The M6/M9 are unique in that they seem to have almost no low end hi passing, which dumps a ton of sub bass into your cab. Given the tight low end and mid presence of the Schroeders, this is probably not a good thing.

    Regarding that super goosed, sizzly top end, I assume you've tried a significant cut of the treble control (back to 9 o'clock). That helps somewhat, but it is still a wide-voiced amp. Not much you can do about it without external EQ, including a hi pass control and extra upper mid and treble EQ.,

    If you love the general tone of the M6, the M9 (with that multiband graphic) will help quite a bit.
  15. sratas


    Dec 15, 2007
    Parma, Italy
    + 10000, worst cab I have ever owned (IMO % IME of course)

  16. 4-string


    Jul 23, 2006
    I went from a Schroeder 610 to a Barefaced Big Twin T, and in comparison the upper mid hole in the Schroeder was evident.

    I agree that the lows are the weak part, but personally I didn't find that cab particularly bright or sizzly at all. Loads of mid-mids though.
  17. bassbooty

    bassbooty -Rey Supporting Member

    Jul 4, 2006
    From the M6 manual regarding the mid control:

    "This is the only passive style control in the string of rotary tone controls. This scheme was chosen for its inherently musical blend and for the way the passive style midrange control, with its wide spread and smooth taper, fills in the holes. Unlike the BASS, this control is a boost only, and while it can competently remove this broad spectrum of midrange from the mix, it cannot provide the extreme attenuation of an active style control.

    You will find, as we did, that this control works amazingly well for shaping the midrange frequencies with a natural earthiness and character that is a perfect counterpart to its neighbors. It is hard to find bad sounds with this more forgiving control as it seems to give you just enough and no more.

    For radical and specific scooping or boosting of the midrange frequencies for modern R&B and Funk styles, there is plenty of control that is infinitely more accurate to be found in the VOICE control."

    I always have the mid control set at the 12:00 position because when I cut on the mid knob, I end up losing some of the definition and punch. It sounds to me when cutting on the mid knob that there are a range of frequencies (or wider Q) that end up being cut.

    I actually ONLY use either voice 1 or 2, which as you know are cutting mids already. My Wicks definitely possess their fair share of mids and I know that only adds to the situation.

    From the M6 manual regarding the bass control:

    "The M6 CARBINE features a pull shift for the BASS control that allows you to choose between two different regions of low end and affects how the control will react.

    When the control is pushed in (normal) the bass frequencies are higher and a cut-off is employed so that below a certain point, sub-low frequencies are not part of the mix.
    This results in a tighter, faster feeling response that is more articulate and will stand out and be heard in a live stage environment. This also works well for recording scenarios where the Bass part needs to sync-up with a complex kick drum line or anytime you need a defined, punchy sound that won’t get lost as the layers of other parts get applied.

    PULL DEEP (control pulled out) allows the entire range of low frequencies to pass and fill in the curves creating a warm, rich sound that is foundational for smaller groups. Along with these deeper lows, a subtle enhancement of the super-high frequencies is added to create a round, breathing cushion of air the whole band can ride. Be sure to check out this setting for three-piece Rock or Blues combos and playing R & B styles where you need to ad juice to thumbing part.

    I actually keep the bass control pushed in so the sub-low frequencies are not part of the mix as stated above. I do roll back the treble control but about as far back as I can stand to roll it back is between 10:00-11:00. Any more than that and again the tone changes and is missing something to my ear.

    KJung, I agree with you and the other TB'ers above and I really believe the M9 is the solution to my issue!

    Again, thanks for all the comments and suggestions guys!
  18. spector_boogie

    spector_boogie No Limit Honky

    Apr 15, 2012
    The Woodlands, TX
    Ok, but again, at "12:00" the Mids aren't "flat", you're boosting the Mids 50% when you have them at Noon is what I'm saying which the manual reflects.

    And yes 1&2 do have a pretty severe mid cut so that's another place to start which you're already doing. But I have the M9 and what you're saying doesn't seem like it'd help as long as you're using that cab. What specific frequency notch are you looking to eliminate or boost w/ the G-EQ on the M9? I'm no way trying to talk you out of the M9 as it's just amazing and why I still continue to use it, but not sure if that in and of itself will sort the issues you're having.

    What about using Voice 4 or 5, leaving Bass/Treble at noon, and Mids all the way off, and seeing where that takes you? If you're cutting Mids via 1&2 just to boost them back up, maybe what I just referenced could make it work better?
  19. Darth Handsome

    Darth Handsome Inactive

    Oct 1, 2010
    Interesting that the manual reads that way. I was always under the impression that in passive controls, there is no "boosting", and at 12:00 the mids would actually be "cut" 50%. Tells you what I know.
  20. The Mesa mid circuit (as I understand it) is a passive 'cut only' mid control that varies a fixed, active mid boost circuit. So, even though the control is actually 'cut only' (i.e., passive), it is cutting a very actively boosted signal, which gives the impression that it is boosting mids when it is past 10 o'clock. It is really 'cutting' extremely boosted mids:D

    Kind of a neat design, similar to the treble circuit on the Celinder/Greengrove preamps. Some believe that a passive cut circuit on a signal that is boosted later in the signal chain provides a more 'natural' response. Who knows!
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