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Mesa Rosette Preamp incoming

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by monkeyland, Jun 14, 2017.


  1. monkeyland

    monkeyland Supporting Member

    Jul 1, 2008
    Ft Myers, Florida
    Endorsing artist: JH Audio, Curt Mangan Strings
    Just got the call from my Sweetwater rep and I should see mine within a few days. For those not familiar.

    Mesa Boogie Rosette Acoustic Guitar Preamplifier | MESA/Boogie®

    I've been really happy with what the Mesa Subway DI has done for me with electric bass and, while I don't play traditional upright at gigs, I'm thinking this will bring me similar results and functionality for my NS NXT. This is the most recent creation from @agedhorse
     
  2. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    I can confirm that there are in fact a bunch of them going through production testing and burn-in prior to retesting.

    For those of you who would like to use them for upright and electric bass, I will take a keen interest in supporting you guys as it's a more sophisticated product than just about any other bass DI out there and it incorporates some features that are kind of TalkBass player driven. Feel free to PM me with any questions you might have, this is for my benefit as well as yours.

    Same applies to the Rosette combo amp, it is most definitely designed to be upright bass appropriate and would appreciate the opportunity to share your experiences with this as well.
     
  3. YosemiteSam

    YosemiteSam

    Jun 8, 2005
    Chatham, MA
    Looks interesting... I'm still sorta stuck on trying to double electric and upright on one preamp. Though right now I'm just using an A/B switch direct into a combo.
     
  4. monkeyland

    monkeyland Supporting Member

    Jul 1, 2008
    Ft Myers, Florida
    Endorsing artist: JH Audio, Curt Mangan Strings
    Just got finished setting up for tonight's gig. The rosette/ns combo sounds great here in the room and in my in ears. I've played this room at least once a week for the last 6 years so I know what I'm listening for. I'll be here tonight and tomorrow so it should get a good workout.
     

    Attached Files:

    agedhorse, Deak and MR PC like this.
  5. MTN.bass72

    MTN.bass72 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2010
    Blue Ridge, Ga
  6. shwashwa

    shwashwa

    Aug 30, 2003
    NJ
    What's the input impedance?
     
  7. monkeyland

    monkeyland Supporting Member

    Jul 1, 2008
    Ft Myers, Florida
    Endorsing artist: JH Audio, Curt Mangan Strings
    I believe 1meg but @agedhorse would need to answer that for sure.
     
  8. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Correct, and it's addressed in the owner's manual along with a general discussion on the input section.
     
  9. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    What is it that you've worked on to make 1 megohm work for Piezo's? Pretty much every Piezo pickup I've used seems to sound better with at least a 4 megohm input. This is not an absolute, but pretty much all the time. Even my newest Acoustic Image head (which has 1 meg inputs) sounds better when I use a little buffer pre with a higher impedance.
    I used a Realist for a minute. That one seemed less affected by input impedance than most other pickups.
     
    riimodar and Chris Fitzgerald like this.
  10. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    In listening tests, 1M sounded smooth and with just about the right amount of electrical damping to the typical piezo transducer. At 500K most started getting thin and a little quacky at 5M the sound got more bloomy and loose.

    This is an "average passive piezo-ceramic pickups", there certainly are a small number of exceptions.

    Now for active pickups, 1M offers a significant noise voltage advantage compared with 10M, and over 50% (probably closer to 75%) of all acoustic guitars sold have active pickups.

    1M is the best choice IMO for the greatest number of players.

    (disclaimer: Before designing acoustic amps, I designed piezo pickup systems and some of my electronics are in onboard preamps on some well known acoustic guitar lines. Acoustic amps are kind of a comfort zone actually.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  11. Wild Rice Chris

    Wild Rice Chris

    May 7, 2005
    Palatine, IL
    Rice Custom Guitars, Inc
    So the combo is bass appropriate also? That's a very tempting format and feature set.
     
  12. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Yes, specifically for upright, but electric bass would be ok if you don't need high SPL and extended low frequency.
     
  13. Wild Rice Chris

    Wild Rice Chris

    May 7, 2005
    Palatine, IL
    Rice Custom Guitars, Inc
    Excellent, thanks!
     
  14. monkeyland

    monkeyland Supporting Member

    Jul 1, 2008
    Ft Myers, Florida
    Endorsing artist: JH Audio, Curt Mangan Strings
    Ok so my thoughts after 3 gigs, 3 different bands, 2 different rooms.

    I used my NS NXT bass with a Genz Benz Shuttlemax 12 into an Ampeg PF115he. The Rosette ran into the Aux in on the back of the amp. This allowed me to have two totally separate paths for the NS and my P-bass, which went in via the front panel of the amp.

    The rosette was very easy to get a good sound out of. Very clean and smooth. I've felt that other preamps we kind of "grainy" at times when used with the NS. The EQ was very effective. I used the two mid sweeps to cut a couple of frequencies that always bug me on the NS and then adjusted the balance between the low EQ and the HPF to make the bottom full but not boomy. I left the treble control at noon and used the tone pot on the bass as dictated by the song. Other than a couple of minor adjustments once the band got going, I didn't really think about it much after that.

    I would say that the NS NXT sounded the most like a real upright that I've experienced yet. It still had it's natural voice that I could bring out on solos or bass lines where I wanted it to be more modern, but walking lines and the like were much more satisfying than normal.

    One thing that I really like is the way the Low EQ and the HPF interact. I have another preamp where the control ranges end up being way more touchy than I'd like. These have plenty of range to be useful but it seemed like it was much easier to find my sweet spot without going too far.

    I got some really nice compliments on the sound. There was even a bass player in the audience one night who had some really nice things to say. Specifically about how natural the NS NXT sounded in the band mix.

    The third night was completely ampless in a tough room where the PA is backed up basically right to an uninsulated wood frame and drywall wall. This wall kind of acts like a resonator and the area on the back of the stage is very boomy. I raised the frequency of the HPF a touch and was able to present a good, well behaved, starting point for the mixing board to further EQ to overcome the challenges of the room.

    This is a really well thought out preamp and based on my experience with the Mesa Subway DI/Preamp, which has basically the same output options, it will easily fit into a lot of different scenarios.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
    vin*tone likes this.
  15. I am interested in how compatible a Rob Allen 4 would be with the Rosette combo amp. Would it sound good with an acoustic group or blue grass band. It has a nice small format and could be put on a stand to get up by my ears. Even connected to the PA for higher volume gigs.

    The combo would be a great practice amp when I travel. I am assuming that a open E won't hurt the speaker's at reasonable SPL's.
     
  16. MR PC

    MR PC

    Dec 1, 2007
    Nice looking unit. All the features you'd **think** one needs to amplify Acoustic DB. Except one, at least for me. The 1 meg input seems limiting for the wide variety of PASSIVE Acoustic DB pickups in daily use on the market..why not have the input be be selectable? (Electric Upright Bass with active electronics is a completly different instrument with different criteria for amplification ime. And I do like and use EUB's.) Say, a 3 way selector like the Grace Designs and Headway products. I'd rather have that feature than a notch filter..at least for Acoustic DB. The HPF combined with the sweepable mid ranges is usually more than enough for dealing with subsonic, rumble, or other feedback issues at high volumes for Acoustic DB. I guess acoustic guitars with piezos have more frequent uses with a the notch filter thing.
     
    cultrvultr likes this.
  17. shwashwa

    shwashwa

    Aug 30, 2003
    NJ
    The input impedance is what held me back also. I just had a custom preamp with very similar features but a 10 mega ohm input impedance. I suppose with an active bass knob you could always dial in more bass if you feel it lacking, but my personal preference is subtractive EQ with the HPF.
     
  18. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    True,
    I rarely use the notch filter on either the Headway EDB-2 or the Grace Felix. I do use the High Pass filter conservatively most of the time. As far as the impedance matching goes, I'm more inclined to use the middle settings on the Felix that are 1 Meg Ohm rather than the Hi or Low. Since I'm using
    the Ehrlund EAP, it sounds fine, but if I were using a standard piezo pickup, like the Realist or Full Circle, then I'd move them up to the high setting, because it really makes a difference in the quality of the lows. IME


    Agreed,
    Usually, less is more for me. That's what's nice about the Felix. You start with less bass, and treble while just silghtly tweak the midrange and rasing the roll off point on the it's HPF.

    Ric
     
  19. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    With the FullCircle I've found the 4 - 4.7 megohm option works best for me. With the Underwood, Shadow, and others, I usually like the 10 megohm more. I still find it interesting that Agedhorse and others find 1 megohm most appealing. And this is a guy with much knowledge, experience, and expertise.
     
  20. sevenyearsdown

    sevenyearsdown Supporting Member

    Jan 29, 2008
    Sanborn, NY
    I have found that these one-size-fits-all acoustic preamps are not usually all that great for upright bass, even though they are loaded with features. I haven't tried the Mesa, but have tried just about everything else out there. There is just so much variation from basses, to pickups, to strings, to which cabinets are being used. It's a messy equation.

    Though I bet that box would kill it for the smaller stringed instruments.