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Metheny rant on Kenny G

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by baba, Oct 18, 2002.


  1. baba

    baba Supporting Member

    Jan 22, 2002
    3rd stone from the sun
  2. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I think this has been the rounds at least once on here before.

    Of course the ironic thing is that a lot of people don't think Metheny plays "real" Jazz and some of his own stuff is pretty close to easy listening.

    I mean I saw him live recently and loved it and have a few of his albums - but I have heard these criticisms levelled at him. ;)
     
  3. Speaking of criticisms.
    It would be nice if he sounded like a guitar player every once and a while.
    I loved his older stuff before he got into the midi guitar.
    I saw him a couple of years back, after listening to a long sax solo I had the pleasure of listening to Pat play a long solo with his guitar set on Sax.
    It was quite boring to me.
     
  4. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I tend to agree - I actually find it more interesting when he plays acoustic guitar.
     
  5. baba

    baba Supporting Member

    Jan 22, 2002
    3rd stone from the sun
    Yes, Metheny's own affinity for cheeziness made a lot of people double take on this one. As you can imagine (or remember) it started an all out war. I am no Metheny fan but I do respect his musicianship.

    Edit (BB) Corrected Pat's name. I'm sure he appreciates it being properly spelled.
     
  6. DigMe

    DigMe

    Aug 10, 2002
    Waco, TX
    WOW! He REALLY laid into G. That's funny. That one paragraph where he really goes off about the Louis Armstrong thing and starts cursing is pretty crazy.

    I gotta give props to Metheny though for not sugar-coating it or being PC about it. Sheesh...he definitely didn't do that.

    To those who are saying that Metheny is doing the same thing as G I've got to say that no matter how "smooth" Metheny's music is sounding these days (I'm personally not a Metheny fan) it will ALWAYS be infinitely more musical than G's music.

    brad cook
     
  7. bassmonkeee

    bassmonkeee Supporting Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    Decatur, GA
    I've always enjoyed reading Metheny's views on things (Ever see what he said about the Jaco book? Let's just say he wasn't a fan....).

    I also agree that I prefer Pat when he sounds like a guitar player, but I will give him props for trying to expand what is thought of as "Jazz." I mean, if everything sounded like Miles in the 50's, that'd be pretty lame--the whole point of jazz was to constantly reinvent itself, right? (That should opena few cans of worms...;))

    It disgusts me that Kenny G is considered the top selling "Jazz" artist of all time. And, to think he has the nerve to put himself on a recording with Louis Armstrong shows that he has no shame.
     
  8. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    It doesn't bother me that much. If that's what people want, and Kenny likes to play it, then cool!

    Maybe it's been Kenny G's lifelong dream to play with Armstrong and he finally has the clout to pull it off... We probably shouldn't assume it's all about money. He already has gobs of money!
     
  9. baba

    baba Supporting Member

    Jan 22, 2002
    3rd stone from the sun
    What bothers me is they call it jazz. I'd rather not get into what jazz is and what jazz isn't, but what Kenny G plays is pop-instrumental....hardly jazz.
     
  10. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    Rock fragmented, punk fragmented, Country fragmented, the classical group, is a fragmented bunch of different types of music spanning hundreds of years... Jazz is old enough to evolve into differing groups too. Since Jazz has different flavors, why can't Kenny G be "Pop-Jazz" or whatever?

    Kenny G is definately "Jazzish" to the public by and large.
     
  11. LiquidMidnight

    LiquidMidnight

    Dec 25, 2000
    Seriously, who gives a **** about labels anyways. I'm no fan of Kenny G but I don't really care if he's called jazz or not. I don't even care, if for some reason in his head, he actually thinks he's jazz. We could go attacking a bunch of artist because thye have a "smoothness" to their Jazz. George Benson definatley falls into this category, and let's not forget Stanley Clarke's Hideaway album.

    Personally, I don't know what Pat's all worked up about. He's acting like Eminem attacking Moby. So he doesn't like Kenny G, so what. Niether do I, but I'm not going to write two articles just to slam him. The only time labels matter is when you are trying to find the album you are looking for in the record store.
     
  12. bassmonkeee

    bassmonkeee Supporting Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    Decatur, GA
    The reason I said that was that I have talked to many people who say, "I don't know how you listen to jazz--I can't stand Kenny G." If more people knew what Jazz really was, there might be more jazz artists making a living.

    I don't think it's about money for him. I think it was about having a heightened sense of self importance. And, while it may have been Kenny G's lifelong dream to play with Louis Armstrong, I can't imagine, even for a second, that Louis Armstrong would have played with Kenny G if he were alive and had any say in the matter.

    It's not a matter of liking Kenny G, or not liking Kenny G. What he did--to go back and think he is important enough to add himself to one of the most recognizable tunes of the 20th century (What can Kenny G really add to that tune? Was crappy saxophone missing?) is simply arrogant, and deserving of scorn.

    I don't see any similarity to what Pat Metheny said to what Eminem said about Moby. None. I thought it was completely justified. What's next? Kenny G will decide that the Beatles would sound better with a saxophone on the original tracks? At least Natalie Cole was the daughter of Nat King Cole....
     
  13. QTraXQ

    QTraXQ Guest

    Aug 16, 2002
    San Antonio, TX
    I like Kenny G's music. I can Appreciate what he does with his Sax as much as Jaco on Bass or Metheny on Guitar.


    The Melodies that Kenny comes up with are Great. They are soothing, Relaxing songs. His songs to me are a Form of Jazz. If we want to discuss want is and isn't Jazz, then lets talk about Fourplay.

    Fourplay are a Highly Acclaimed "Jazz" group, but they are put in a different category of "Jazz"(Contemporary). I like Big Band Jazz, modern, fusion, and contemporary.
    Of course Duke Ellington and Loius Armstrong are a Totally different sound To Fourplay but they are all under the Genre of "Jazz".

    Oh yea Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong don't even have the same style of "Jazz"..And both are Legends of "Jazz"

    please don't think that what louis Armstrong plays is the only form of Jazz.
     
  14. baba

    baba Supporting Member

    Jan 22, 2002
    3rd stone from the sun
    His "smoothness" has nothing to do with whether it's jazz or not. Metheny is pretty smooth himself.

    Because he doesn't play jazz. The only thing jazz about Kenny G is his brass instrument.

    I know this is very much subjective, so I'll stop. I can't even play jazz so I'm certainly not one to judge. However, I'm a jazz fanatic and do hold jazz at the top of the musical rung....even beyond any classical composition. Because of this I am quick to get irritated when music is (in my view) incorrectly classified as jazz.....even though, to many, classifications should'nt mean anything. Ok, I said I'll stop, sorry.
     
  15. IronBass

    IronBass

    Jan 31, 2002
    Dallas, Texas
    This is stupid
     
  16. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    I won't argue, because it's not a big deal to me. I think the best punishment for a poorly played album is poor sales... But it seems most people don't dislike his stuff.

    If other, better Jazz artists want more recognition. Perhaps they need to look at how they market themselves. I am not talking about changing their playing or tone or anything... just purely from a business standpoint. What do they do? It may be that some "Jazz culture" is keeping them from doing what what they need to do to properly sell their tunes.
     
  17. bassmonkeee

    bassmonkeee Supporting Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    Decatur, GA
    If this was meant for me, I never claimed that Louis Armstrong was the only form of Jazz. Far from it. I mean, sure, he only helped invent the style, but that doesn't mean he's the only one who can play it.

    But, for Kenny G to think that he belongs in the same class as Louis Armstrong to the point that he needs to go back and add himself to Armstrong's work shows an arrogance and conceit that is appaling, to me, at least.

    Of course, Pat Metheny said it better than I ever could.

    I'm glad you get pleasure from listening to Kenny G. It just has a tendency to make me shake, and fall down, so I avoid it like the plague. :D
     
  18. mark beem

    mark beem Gold Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2001
    New Hope, Alabama
    Two things for Pat


    [​IMG]
     
  19. bassmonkeee

    bassmonkeee Supporting Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    Decatur, GA
    Hee hee. I don't agree, but I think it's pretty damn funny. :D
     
  20. mark beem

    mark beem Gold Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2001
    New Hope, Alabama
    Heh, heh..

    Yeah, just a joke.... I really like Pat and the stuff he's done... However, while I admire his passion and support for the genre, at some points during his diatribe, it seemed he was just plain whining!!! Almost like he was pissed because K.G. was making more money and selling more records than he was...

    Also, did he REALLY think his comments wouldn't be copied and re-posted over the entire internet?????

    Oh well....... I'll keep buying his CD's