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metranome or violence?

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by bbbob707, Nov 5, 2010.


  1. bbbob707

    bbbob707

    May 29, 2010
    well i'm a bassest who is totally dedicated to songwriter/guitarist that i play with.we meet in a bar coverband,a couple of years ago.that didn't last long and the two of us have worked on his originals and covers and played since.we picked up a drummer.personally and musically it wasn't the best match but it did help us to get our band together. well we decided to dump him after one too many head bumps and have been looking for the next one.we're getting some great gigs,folks really like us but the drummers that we have used seem to want to speed up our songs.the first drummer was alot more able to follow us and we had a great show but wasn't able to be there for the next one so we practiced with another guy we know,who is in a real popular local band,it went fine and it seemed that we were all on the same page but when we went for the gig it seemed like he just decided that our songs needed to go way faster and pretty much just took the lead.which in his band works just fine butt.....anyway after listening back to the recording my best idea(in my old school ways) that i told my guitar player was that i was going to have to hurt one em'.We live in a pretty small nor cal area so everybody would know about it and either drummers wouldn't play with us or if they did,they would'nt mess with me (the tempo nazi) well my band mate thought that a metronome might be a better option!!! O.K.....So is it rude to mesure a song,set the metronome,put it in front of the drummer!!! I don't no about the norm,but we really don't need someone to lead us,we need someone to follow us. For now i promese not to punch any body.any suggestions,thanks
     
  2. bassbully

    bassbully Endorsed by The PHALEX CORN BASS..mmm...corn!

    Sep 7, 2006
    Blimp City USA
    What's that old saying about old dogs and new tricks? uuuhhhhh...yea ...there ya go.
     
  3. lethargytartare

    lethargytartare

    Sep 7, 2004
    Chicago
    Losing tempo control at shows -- I always assumed that was a sign of an inexperienced drummer. All the novices I knew had that problem. I think a metronome is a direct affront to a drummer -- BUT, it's justified, and it sends an unambiguous signal. It both calls out the problem, and gives you a precise means of telling him exactly what you want. And then he can decide if he can stick with that. If not, then he knows he needs to move on. So if basic talking fails, I think a metronome is totally fair.

    And if he reverts the minute you turn off the metronome...well...a little violence might be in order! :D
     
  4. zephyr_words

    zephyr_words

    Aug 12, 2009
    Virginia
    You set the tempo an have the drummer follow you. The drummer should be listening to you to lock in anyway. If he keeps trying to speed up then tell him so. The metronome can come out if he accuses you of slowing down.
     
  5. I like the idea of the metronome, because it will force everyone to play in tempo. A lot of people can't keep a beat to save their life. A metronome will help everyone equally and nonjudgementally.

    That said, the drums set and maintain the tempo of a song, not the bass or guitar. It's the drummers job to keep the song on beat. If they can't, they really need to practice a lot with the aforementioned metronome.
     
  6. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Well, I'm a bassist who is totally dedicated to a songwriter/guitarist with whom I play. We met in a bar cover band a couple years ago. That didn't last long, and the two of us have worked on his originals and covers and played together since then.

    We picked up a drummer. Personally and musically it wasn't the best match, but it did help us to get our band together. Well, we decided to dump him after one too many head bumps and have been looking for the next one. We're getting some great gigs and folks really like us, but the drummers that we have used seem to want to speed up our songs. The first drummer was a lot more able to follow us and we had a great show, but he wasn't able to be there for the next one so we practiced with another guy we know who is in a real popular local band. It went fine, and it seemed that we were all on the same page, but when we went for the gig it seemed like he just decided that our songs needed to go way faster and he pretty much just took the lead. In his band this works just fine but ...

    Anyway, after listening back to the recording, I told my guitar player my best idea (in my old school ways), which was that I was going to have to hurt one of 'em. We live in a pretty small northern California area, so everybody would know about it and either drummers wouldn't play with us or, if they did, they wouldn't mess with me (the tempo nazi).

    Well, my band mate thought a metronome might be a better option! Okay, so is it rude to measure a song, set the metronome, and put it in front of the drummer? I don't know about the norm, but we really don't need someone to lead us, we need someone to follow us. For now I promise not to punch any body. Any suggestions? Thanks.
     
  7. thudfromafar

    thudfromafar

    Dec 12, 2007
    Chicago
    anybody
     
  8. Shakin-Slim

    Shakin-Slim

    Jul 23, 2009
    Tokyo, Japan
    tsk tsk. I'm into grammar just as much as you, but this ain't no essay writing competition. Your ability to fix the OP shows that you were perfectly capable of understanding it in the first place.

    To the OP, they're your songs, not his. Tell him what to do and if he doesn't listen, he won't get anywhere as a musician.
     
  9. I've never seen one of these but somebody told me about a device they
    used to have called a Russian Dragon (as in "rushing/dragging") which
    provided a visual display for the drummer to synchronize to. See this:
    Jeanius Electronics Russian Dragon RD-R3
     
  10. Bufalo

    Bufalo Funk in the Trunk Supporting Member

    Jan 6, 2005
    Harrisburg, PA
    I'd say that if your drummer isn't on the same page as you two, then you need a different drummer.

    Have you given ANY thought to the idea that maybe the songs sound BETTER uptempo? Ask some people in the audience what they think of your recordings of the songs at "your" speed compared the "live" performances at his speed.



    FWIW, I only had to read Munji's repost once to fully grasp what took two readings of the OP's jumble.
     
  11. Your songs, your band, your tempos - if he can't or won't play the tempos you set after you have pointed this out to him, then get someone who will!!.
     
  12. Oddly enough this is EXACTLY what metronomes are meant to do. Folks seem to have forgotten that.
    Now, don't expect him to play along with it, but do use it to demonstrate the correct tempo.
    Sadly, though, it probably won't work, based on your description of him.
     
  13. lethargytartare

    lethargytartare

    Sep 7, 2004
    Chicago
    C'mon -- let's not get into critiquing the grammar and composition post...I thought people had gotten beyond that a decade ago...
     
  14. NAH, grammar and composition ROCKS. So does a drummer that feels the groove and keeps time.

    Speeding up is something that can happen on purpose or out of neglect. Find out which and look up the basics of an English paragraph please.
     
  15. After some resistance and hemming and hawing, the drummer in my band bought in ear wireless monitors and he patches in his metronome. He's the only guy who hears it.

    After 1 practice he was floored and said that it was the best piece of equipment he ever bought.

    We're absolutely done playing songs at the wrong tempo, and absolutely done having any speed-ups or slow-downs in our show. The drummer has been able to lock down his fills, and as a result, I'm able to play locked in to his rhythms.

    It has been such an upgrade to the drummer AND the band that I really doubt I would be willing to play original rock without a metronome. Blues, covers, folk music, okay it's not so critical. But when everybody is trying to fit as much awesomeness into 3:30, get a click track or I'm out.

    I'm getting older! No time to waste solving amateur problems. Just my humble opinion.
     
  16. FWIW I read your post instead of the OP. IMO, the OP should thank you for fixing up his story.
     
  17. What happened to just talking about the gig as a group?
    Hey that was pretty fast.....faster than we rehearsed them.....etc.......
    not in a condescending way or anything, but maybe he didn't know the songs tempo as well as you thought he did.
     
  18. I get the point that possibly the drummer figured the songs were better at a quicker tempo. My feeling is that pulling the change as a surprise during a gig makes him just as much a poor bandmate as not being able to give a certain tempo makes him a poor drummer. For me, it doesn't matter which of those 2 doors he uses to leave the band.
     
  19. Col E Loc

    Col E Loc Supporting Member

    Nov 8, 2009
    Brooklyn, NYC
    *there's this Anti-Establishment Mentality - this "Metronome is Cheating, man" attitude that I think is Nonsense. I think it's the same as people who want to go to "Film School" so they can be A-Listers, not to make art. I know a lot of people who just want to pick up the instrument and play, but to put Real Work in would be too much to ask.

    Dmusic148 is right about What metronomes were made for - practice tools to make you better. I was amazed what an hour of practice with a metronome does for My skills compared to an hour of just f*ing around.

    *this thread is Hyper relevant to me this morning, as Last Night I had to get rid of my drummer of 6 months for Just the reason this thread was started: the little bastard never took the time to learn the songs right. Everything was played at either 210, 177, 105, or 88.

    As is true for all the problems in the world, this one can be solved Simply: Eliminate Ego.
     

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