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Mic question

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by grendle, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. grendle


    Mar 4, 2011
    Central FL
    I'm thinking of buying my own Mic (beta 52 which sounded best when we recorded) , a Mic clamp for my cab and finding my best Mic'd tone settings before I play out with it. Just so I'm comfortable and know exactly what's going to the board. Any one else do this? Any recommendations? I really can't stand sm57' s a lot of sound guys use for bass.
  2. Hactar


    Sep 25, 2011
    Boulder, CO
    If you are not using your own personal sound guy, a lot of sound guys prefer to run you through their equipment because they know their stuff works and they know how it sounds.

    Just something to be aware of.

    As far as the Beta 52, what are you running it into?
  3. grendle


    Mar 4, 2011
    Central FL
    Good point, its been a wile , I forgot about that. We just ran it through a firepod and recorded with cubase. Sounded killer. Took the time to eq the head (svt2 and a peavey 4x10) and the bass (spector) for the best Mic tone, recorded the direct tone on a seperate track as well. Probably the first time I ever really liked the mike tone. It was pretty smooth, got the growl but not too much string or pick noise, just right. The akg d112 gets a little too much on the high end I think.
  4. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    I do it. I have a Heil PR40 I bring to every gig and mic my cab and I don't allow DI's unless I'm given a rig that sucks on fly gigs.

    And yet, even on gigs where my band is clearly in charge and should be given anything we want (most of them, quite honestly), I still have to fight with soundmen who have no vision or abilities. Hell, just two weeks ago, I had a soundman sneak a line into the DI of my amp and didn't find out until the end of the show. I told that idiot I hated DI's and he did it anyway because he was incompetent. I told him off, too. Nobody ever touches my stuff without my permission. I now badmouth him to anyone who will listen.
  5. seanm

    seanm I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize!

    Feb 19, 2004
    Ottawa, Canada
    Ouch! I am probably the most easygoing guy in the world with soundguys, but I would be peeved if they messed with my gear behind my back. :scowl:
  6. Bassoballs


    Nov 14, 2009
    Mid Michigan
    I also use a Heil PR-40. But I like to also use a Reddi and blend the two together. I'm fortunate to have had the same soundman for the past 7 years. We've spent a lot of time experimenting and so far this is the ticket for me.
  7. Vinny D

    Vinny D

    Jan 9, 2007
    Warwick, RI
    Even though you may dial in a nice tone with your setup in a studio/rehearsal space it will vary greatly once you get on stage.
    There are many other issues that will develop and tweaking will be needed.
    Such as...volume level, other instruments, cabinet placement...etc.
    Not saying it won't work for you, just keep in mind changes will most likely happen.

    On another note....I wonder how many drummers get pissed off that I attach mic clips to there drums........
    I guess I am hoodwinking them :rolleyes:
  8. BigMac5


    Nov 26, 2005
    San Diego, CA
    I would try other microphones that are not kick drum microphones. I have used and recommend the Electro Voice RE-20 and the sennheiser md 421. I've never used the Heil PR40 but have hear good things about it.
  9. iriegnome

    iriegnome Bassstar style Supporting Member

    Nov 23, 2001
    Kenosha, WI 53140
    I love my Beta 52. I don't get to use it often enough, because I run direct most of the time, but I love it. I actually just use a short boom Tama mic stand. I think I paid like $30 for it. Nice heavy duty and compact.
  10. Exactly, like any competent sound guy wants another open mic that doesn't have to be their on stage.... In this day and age there is no reason you cannot get superior sound through the amp out.

    The gig I do I take the out from the Ampeg head, add slight eq and slight compression and I get a killer sound and mix for the bass player. He loves me and so do the others when I send it to their buds. I also go direct with the guitar, keys, banjo and drums. cymbols have mics, so do bagpipes and vocals. One monitor for the drummer and it is easy to get a mix each night. Easiest gig I ever had. The isolation is amazing no one is going deaf. So if you are not getting a good sound out of DI you are doing something wrong.
  11. BigMac5


    Nov 26, 2005
    San Diego, CA
    I seriously doubt one more open mic is going to make that much of a difference.
  12. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    It doesn't make a lick of difference. Any sound guy who would whine about having to deal with a bass cab mic like it's the straw that breaks the camel's back on a stage full of open mics should get out of the business. I got no problem with those who like DI's, but you anti-mic folks grossly overestimate the difficulty of getting a good sound out of a good cab with a good mic. I do it all the time, and just like with a DI, the sound that comes out of the PA is as good as the soundman wants it to be. And since most of our gigs have good soundmen, it has yet to ever be a problem, and we always have a butt-ton of open mics on our stage.

    I found another very cool advantage to micing a cab tonight, BTW...In the course of a show, I'll use a VT Deluxe to get a little overdrive, and also to switch between electric and upright. But tonight's gig I didn't need upright, so I got lazy and just brought a Micro VR and one 210av and mic'ed it. But I still wanted overdrive on some songs, so I would just crank the gain and turn down the master when I needed overdrive, and turn it back for the cleaner sounds. You do that with the Micro VR's XLR out and you'll send board levels through the roof. I did it with a mic on the cab and the soundman didn't have to change a thing. Now I don't recommend doing that if you're not good at matching your levels, but I am so it worked out well ;)
  13. TimmyP


    Nov 4, 2003
    Indianapolis, IN
    The last thing I'd use is a mic that has a heavily tailored response (B52, D6, etc.).
  14. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 20, 2009
    and yet all the guitar players get their amps miked...
    a better analogy would be if you snuck triggers onto all the drums then ran drum samples all night without telling them :mad:
  15. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    btw, our drummer gets pissed when someone hooks clips to his drums. He only likes mic stands.
  16. edwinhurwitz

    edwinhurwitz Supporting Member

    May 13, 2003
    Boulder, CO
    Endorsing Artist: DR Strings, SMS
    I like DIs because my bass rig is as uncolored as I can get, thus, what comes out of my speakers should be what comes out of the PA and 99 times out of a 100 soundguys put my fader up and say it sounds great. Nevertheless, sound guys will sometimes want to add a mic, and I always say "Go for it, here's an RE20!" and they smile.

    Mic, DI, it's all good.
  17. D.A.R.K.

    D.A.R.K. Supporting Member

    Aug 20, 2003
    It seems a lot of folks aren't willing to look at the big picture-
    part of mic selection (by experienced engineers who care)
    is based upon the entire ensemble, which includes every instrument requiring a mic. Every mic model has a different characteristic, pickup pattern, and frequency response. Therefore, when choosing mics for a band, you pick based upon these variables in order to aid in placing these sources in a mix.
    In a nutshell, what works for bassist "a" might not work for bassist "b" in context.
    This may be partly why di's are favored by many engineers for certain instruments, including bass (generally. It is a different animal when effects are used, of course!).
    A di will provide a much wider and even frequency response than a mic will. This allows engineers to place the bass (one of the more difficult instruments to reinforce properly with pa) much more easily without loosing important information.
    Sometimes mics are even chosen for their response in order to combat acoustical anomalies (maybe the 2k presence peak in a 57 plus a di works perfectly to cut though that boomy hall while allowing just enough lows to be dialed in without turning the mix into mud, for example.)
    Mics are great on bass amps, I prefer them, but selection of the appropriate mic/ di or combo of the two is far beyond what they sound like out of context.
  18. Vinny D

    Vinny D

    Jan 9, 2007
    Warwick, RI
    No...not all guitar players have there amps mic'd anymore.
    I would say half of the bands that I work with these days the guitarist is going direct and just using a stage monitor.

    I also never said using a mic wouldn't work, it will work...just don't expect the results to be the same as when you try it in a controlled enviroment as the OP was saying he was doing.

    And the drum reference was for Jimmy :D
  19. fretless_bill


    Jan 30, 2009
    There are three good reasons to mic a guitar cabinet
    1) so the amp tone is present in the PA FOH mix. That is also what some bass players want and should have
    2) so the stage volume can kept down. Also important for bass depending on venue
    3) guitar freq is very directional so you need the PA to help spread the joyful sound. Less so with bass. So sometimes I use neither DI or mic. Guitar can should always be mic'd in my opinion.

    So to mic or DI your bass depends on what you like and what you need in the venue.
  20. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    The high and mid freqs coming from your bass are just as directional as guitar at those same freqs.

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