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Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Lonesomedave, Feb 5, 2014.

  1. I was watching the show MYSTERY DINERS the other day on tv and they were helping a guy who ran a vegetarian restaurant.

    it turns out, one of the problems was with a female staffer turning away customers who wanted cheese.

    when confronted with her behavior, her excuse was "milk is murder"

    this has got me wondering....why would she say that? i have to admit, i am not a vegan (or vegetarian), and, in fact, am very much of an omnivore....BUT, i respect how anyone wants to live their life as long as it does not affect me.

    have any of you heard this position before? i mean, if she had said "eating meat is murder" i might disagree with her, but i would at least understand where she was coming from

    just throwing this out...don't want to start a flame war between meat eaters and vegans, but just asking for my own edification.

    any thoughts welcome

  2. AccolaStudios


    Nov 24, 2011
    As a former vegan, I can certainly attest to the tendency of many other vegans to become very dogmatic about their practices. There was a time where I would have said that milk is murder, or even that the miniscule amount of steric acid found in some vitamins is murder as well.

    Is it true, justified, or reasonable? No, but that's just how it seems when you're an ethical vegan.
  3. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow Never Forget. Banned

    Dec 23, 2010
    Horten, Norway
    Some people just love feeling morally superior. Even if it makes them look bat **** crazy.
  4. punkjazzben


    Jun 26, 2008
    Her behaviour was inappropriate. But by way of explaining her excuse, I would imagine (if I remember correctly) she is talking about what happens when dairy cows give birth to male calfs. And dairy cows need to keep giving birth to keep making milk.
  5. hrodbert696

    hrodbert696 Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member


    "Todd's a vegan. That makes him better than other people!"
  6. yeah, but WHY? that's what i'm asking. I know the conclusion, but i want to know the reasoning

  7. bass_case

    bass_case Maintain low tones. Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2013
    Miami, FL
    Because every curd is sacred.
  8. Frank Tuesday

    Frank Tuesday

    Jul 11, 2008
    Austin, TX
    Obviously, you have to kill the cow to get the milk. Duh. It's not like the milk has some other way of getting out of the cow.
  9. Frank Tuesday

    Frank Tuesday

    Jul 11, 2008
    Austin, TX
    If you drink the milk, you are preventing the milk from becoming a new cow, and that is practically the same thing as murder. Milk is cow semen, right?:D
  10. f.c.geil


    May 12, 2011
    It is partlyly due to the fact that most of the calves will be killed. A cow must calve in order to continue lactating. Also, it is based on the horrendous conditions in with dairy cattle are kept. They are pumped full of antibiotics, which creates super germs that kill people in the area. Their feces and urine are sprayed into the air, which also causes health problems and death among their neighbors. Thus, milk is murder.
  11. slobake

    slobake resident ... something Supporting Member

    I found this answer on line:
    "In order for a mammal to produce milk it must give birth , dairy cattle give birth to a calf once a year to ensure continued milk production. These calfs either - become veal calfs - cramped in boxes and force fed milk powder - or killed within hours of their birth and made in to either dog meat or fertilizer."

    When I was a Zen Buddhist we used to wonder about people who flout their vegetarian diet in an arrogant way. One of the Buddhist precepts says "no kiling." There are a lot of ways to kill. If someone invites me to their home and has spent a lot of time preparing a meal for me it may be a way of expressing their love for me. They prepare a meal with meat not understanding what my diet is. If I pronounce in an arrogant haughty way "I don't kill animals." I have just killed their love for me.
  12. 1958Bassman


    Oct 20, 2007
    You mean, cows aren't wrung out to get milk, like a wash cloth?

    I've CLEARLY been doing it wrong. They put up quite a fight, too.
  13. 2behead


    Mar 8, 2011
    The party line is Meat is murder, dairy is rape. I was vegetarian for about ten years. I was never one to push it on others. My stance was "we aren't lesbians, we don't recruit" The issue is that the dairy industry mistreats cows. They are pumped full of hormones, over milked to the point of bleeding,( pretty gross if you ask me) it's just not ethical treatment of animals. That being said, I cook with milk, I personally have never liked to drink it due to the loogie but that's a separate issue. I eat eggs, cheese, I buy from local farmers and dairys most of the time to deal with the issue myself. I'm lucky enough to have access where I live. I if I need milk I get it at Safeway or where ever. Some people use God to feel more important than others, some music, comics,ethics, ect. We all do it. This was just her none logical way of being better than others. The analogy to rape is a stretch, but I can see it. Murder. No way.
    Sencerly, a guy that just made himself feel better than a judgmental bimbo.
  14. Jeff K

    Jeff K Supporting Member

    Jul 9, 2005
    Memphis, TN
    :D ^ Post of the day!
  15. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA
    I saw that episode. At least she is passionate about something. I can respect that.

  16. slobake

    slobake resident ... something Supporting Member

    I remembered reading an article about Gary Snyder shooting bullfrogs on his property. If I remember correctly he was quoted saying "Frogs legs for dinner tonight."
    If case you don't know Snyder is is Jaffey Ryder in Kerouc's books an excellent poet and one of the leading voices of buddhism in the U.S.
    Here is an excerpt from an article I found about him:

    Further blowing away preconceptions of virtue and compassion, and playing trickster to those with fixed views of not killing, Snyder the environmentalist has let it be known that he shoots the frogs that have invaded ponds and upset the ecosystem in his northern Sierra home terrain. He thereby poses a startling example of the complexity of the first precept, in which not killing the frogs might amount to killing other lives in the fragile ecological balance. Snyder seems to relish upsetting any smugness among his American fellow Buddhists. He warns against co-opting Buddhist teaching into a comfortable, merely therapeutic, and hopelessly dualistic liberalism or humanism that fails to plumb the depths of true self and fundamental being, as taught by Vimalakirti.

  17. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Supporting Member

    She's an idiot. And a biased one at that. What a surprise.

    Nothing to see here, move on.
  18. ZenG


    Dec 13, 2013
    Near the fridge
    I'm a weightlifter/bodybuilder.....Milk is one of my best friends.

    I am not Lactose intolerant.......but I guess Milk would be a problem for those who are.

    I've been drinking Milk my entire life.

    Haven't been in a hospital for any term illness for 55 years.

    In better shape than 95% of the people I know that are same age as me.
  19. fhm555

    fhm555 So FOS my eyes are brown Supporting Member

    Feb 16, 2011
    If not better, at least different.

    With one exception (a mennonite raised vegetarian from birth), every other non meat eater I've know gave me the distinct impression they were vegetarian because it made them stand out from the crowd.

    Not judging, just sayin...
  20. slobake

    slobake resident ... something Supporting Member

    I oughta kick your skinny butt. :bag:
    Okay, just kidding, don't come looking for me.