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Mixing wet and dry signals

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by marantz10, Apr 26, 2010.


  1. marantz10

    marantz10 Master Bass Playa

    Oct 21, 2008
    Seattle, WA
    So as a branch of the old thread (splitting signal to get Geddy Lee/Chris Squire tone) I have made my decisions on getting a Sansamp BDDI and some day I'll get a Marshall Guv'nor, BUT I would still like to split my signal so I can mix my "dry" signal with the distorted "wet" signal to get as close as possible to these guys' tones--in particular Chris Squire.

    To split/mix would I use an effects loop w/ directed bypass option? These boxes seem to send a line out to an effect and then back in again and can be mixed with your current signal. State your opinion on this option and your experiences. Possibly name models that seem to work well.

    OR

    Wire my Jazz bass for stereo, run a stereo cable (if they make them) to some sort of device/adapter that can split it into separate cables, might need to build one myself if I can't find one. Then run one wet, one dry, and then buy a tiny little powered mixer to mix the tones together and "blend" them together as needed.

    Which option would you do and why?
     
  2. MooseLumps

    MooseLumps Supporting Member

    Nov 4, 2007
    Portland
    There are several blenders available that can mix wet and dry for a lot less effort than you are describing.

    http://www.xotic.us/effects/x_blender/

    This would be one of the standards, though there are other options.

    Wiring your bass for stereo seems like more pain than it's worth.

    I do exactly what you do with a Boss GT-6B. I have the option to mix in dry signal with any distortion box to get that bottom back. Plus, I have several different distortions available, for less than the cost of some boutique distortion boxes (I bought used.)
     
  3. chicago_mike

    chicago_mike

    Oct 9, 2007
    Chicago - LA - Rome - Dallas
    Endorsing Artist : Genz Benz
    Stereo is almost worthless live..you cancel half your sound and most sound systems are mono.

    So use a blender. Make sure, like the X-otic, that you can switch the phase of the loop signal. Many....MANY pedals invert the signal and if you just did a 1:1 blend you might not get any signal at all. Sort of the old wah before fuzz or fuzz before wah because of this reason really, even though they werent blending.

    I made my own blender because of this reason. I have a simpler one but it doesnt have the inverting capability so it doesnt see much use.

    This is a very good question ,wich the techies of us should get a post together of all the effects we bassists use, that invert the signal.
     
  4. marantz10

    marantz10 Master Bass Playa

    Oct 21, 2008
    Seattle, WA
    The Xotic X-Blender is $220... that seems overly expensive for being a mixer in a stomp box. If I picked up a tiny mixer with an effects send loop, I could do the same thing, right?
     
  5. chicago_mike

    chicago_mike

    Oct 9, 2007
    Chicago - LA - Rome - Dallas
    Endorsing Artist : Genz Benz
    As long as it has the ability to invert the return signal of the loop yes.

    $220 is why I built my own.
     
  6. marantz10

    marantz10 Master Bass Playa

    Oct 21, 2008
    Seattle, WA
    I wonder if I could find a wiring schematic for building my own that includes an invert. If I stayed away from the powered stuff and made a passive one, perhaps it'd work?

    What do you guys suppose Chris Squire is using to bring his signal back together again? I know he has a bunch of custom rack stuff, but it couldn't be that complicated...
     
  7. marantz10

    marantz10 Master Bass Playa

    Oct 21, 2008
    Seattle, WA
  8. chicago_mike

    chicago_mike

    Oct 9, 2007
    Chicago - LA - Rome - Dallas
    Endorsing Artist : Genz Benz
    The splitter blender and a few others around this series of tubes have the invert switch and for those that can solder become a good alternative.
     
  9. marantz10

    marantz10 Master Bass Playa

    Oct 21, 2008
    Seattle, WA
  10. MooseLumps

    MooseLumps Supporting Member

    Nov 4, 2007
    Portland
    220 new... ebay on the other hand...

    Dont forget that the x-blender has phase reversal, eq, true bypass AND A WARRANTY(if you buy new)

    How much do you think it would cost to wire your bass stereo and buy/make all the components to run a split signal rig? I'll bet you get to the triple digits a lot faster than you think.

    Building your own is a great alternative if you know what you're doing. You asked for a product recommendation though.

    Think of it like this. If you spend 220 on the x blender (or similar alternative) and don't like it, flip it for 180. If you like it, keep it and know that it will likely last as long as you do.

    A mixer will not have a phase invert ability, nor is it operable by foot. And you ought to DI into a mixer to get the least amount of coloration and impedance issues from it. A single good DI will run you as much or more than the X-blender (or reasonable alternative) if you go without, more power to you.

    It seems to me that you are willing to walk a mile to save a penny here. If you end up building your own blender, please do a build thread. I may just follow suit. Just know that a blender will do everything you ask with a minim of headache.
     
  11. marantz10

    marantz10 Master Bass Playa

    Oct 21, 2008
    Seattle, WA
    I have taken a few Electrical Engineering classes with some hands on experience with some of this stuff so I might try building it. I'll need to price out the pieces and see what it'll cost first... (and I need time, I'm a full time college student studying applied mathematics).
     
  12. hall1k

    hall1k

    Jun 14, 2009
    Maybe the EHX Bass Big Muff Pi? But then you're limited to only one brand of pedal.
     
  13. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    Not just one brand of pedal, but only one pedal. ;)

    Regarding the invert function, it is a fallacy that this function is needed for effects that inherently flip the phase. There may or may not be wave cancellation between the dry and wet signals completely irrespective of whether an inverter was part of the distortion effect. The phase inversion function is useful, but it cannot be assumed that you'll need it for one type of pedal vs. another.
     
  14. marantz10

    marantz10 Master Bass Playa

    Oct 21, 2008
    Seattle, WA
    Then what do you suggest? No invert switch? I think it makes sense that things out of phase can cancel each other out. If each pedal has specified if it inverts the signal or not, then I will be using this with a Tech21 Sansamp BDDI and a Marshall Guv'nor--if anybody knows if they reverse the phase or not...

    If I build a pedal, first where do I start the DIY thread for this

    and

    Where's a good site to buy parts from? (unless you guys really recommend Radioshack, I've had bad experiences with service lately)

    Thanks,

    Ryan
     
  15. Robertron

    Robertron

    Feb 12, 2010
    NewYork, NY
    This guy sells a cheap, simple blend pedal.
    http://this1smyne.com/pedals.html
    I got it with a big knob like on the xotic blender so you can adjust blend amounts with your foot.
     
  16. marantz10

    marantz10 Master Bass Playa

    Oct 21, 2008
    Seattle, WA
    I sent the guy an email with a few questions concerning the inverted part and the finish of the box (I'd like to paint it myself :D). For that price, I definitely will be considering it along with the possibility of building one.
     
  17. marantz10

    marantz10 Master Bass Playa

    Oct 21, 2008
    Seattle, WA
    Okay so I just got done reading about the Boss LS-2 Line Selector. It seems that it has an option to "mix" two loops A and B. Anybody use a Boss LS-2 and will that work? It's available everywhere and it's priced okay.
     
  18. ModuMan

    ModuMan How many is too many? Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2007
    Bristol, CT #19
    I go about this another way...

    I have a two-channel preamp, a Pearce. There are a lot of ways to use it but I use the combined input which goes to both channels. I use the FX loop and have it mixed into channel 1 only. Channel 2 stays dry.

    I also use a Boss LS-2 but that's primarily for ease of switching in different combinations of effects.
     
  19. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    That's not what I was trying to say. :) I was just correcting a common misunderstanding about when an invert switch is needed, not saying the switch isn't ever needed.
    These are not pure sine waves, so the relationship is not so black-and-white.
    Search on "DIY" for endless threads on the subject, including parts suppliers and sites devoted to helping people starting out in pedal building.
     

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