Mock Turtle Regulator worship post!

um, thanks!
*grins smugly*

more of an appreciation than worship post, I suppose...I'll get there one day...

Stu Hamm and Billy Sheehan's instructional videos get my recommendation for tapping (counterpoint and Van Halen styles of tapping respectively).

 

I should start my own worship post, worshipping me.

 

Yeah, I'm with you there.. that's a pretty cool solo.

 

I dont have the Billy Sheehan video, but I have Stu Hamm's. I like the way Stu teaches you how to tap. He explains it very clearly and precisely. What Id like to know is, How much different is Billy's video than Stus? Are their teaching methods similar or different? I cant afford to buy it right now, so thats why im asking.

 

I've got Billy Sheehan's "On Bass" and "Bass Secrets" videos.
apparently they're no longer in production (which is odd as there seems to be a demand for them)

in these videos Wolf Marshall interviews Billy and gets him to demonstrate various riffs etc., several of them slowed down too.
Marshall is a guitarist (and has really bad 80's blonde hair) but does a pretty good job.

there's a lot of in depth analysis of his Van halen-style tapping (ie. using tapping to play fast lead lines), but there's no analysis at all of simultaneous bass-and-lead Stu Hamm-style lines.

in both videos there's a bit of live footage of Billy's solos too-the sound's muddy and indistinct on those, but they're a useful inclusion.

 

cool....thanks for the info mock, very much apreciated.

 

do either of you ever use these tapping styles in songs?

i learnt to tap like 10 years ago (badly, no doubt!) after i heard a live stu ham solo. since then I've never tapped another note. i might try and learn again?

i'm the same with slap actaully. i never use it in songs so my technique has turned to s**t!!!!

 

see the "my style is stuck in a timewarp" thread in the Technique section.
a nice big can of worms has been opened.
laaarvly.

 

If you meant to insult me you'll be happy to know you've succeeded. Why? It beats me, but here goes, Grrrr etc...

Slap was invented & most popular in the 70's & 80's, while tapping saw it's peak in the early 80's period of what I like to call 'sh*t-metal'.... and not using these 20 and 30 year old techniques means my technique is stuck in a timewarp?? Err...

I'm not saying that I don't think your solo is damned good. I do and I am impressed, more so by the melodies than the technique.
I'm complimenting your creativity rather than your use of a tacky 80's show-off technique.

Not that I should justify my choice of style:

I don't use slap in my hard rock band, because using slap in hard rock immediately brands you nu-metal and we're aiming for a sort of british stoner sound.

I don't tap because quite honestly tapping in hard rock went hideously out of fashion when frizzy hair and white hi-tecs stopped being cool.
Last time I saw someone on stage tapping was a few months back, there were about 5 people in the audience including me, what does that say to you about the sort of bands that incorporate tapping inot their music?

Our guitarist produced more dodgy 80's metal records than you or I could shake a stick at and even he knows that tapping is totally un-cool in this day and age.

I mould my technique around what music I'm playing at the moment. Currently, I have no need for slap or tap, so I dont use or practice it.

Maybe one sad day tapping will come back in fashion and I'll be there tapping away to my hearts content... and lucky you will have a head start, becasue YOUR technique is stuck in a timewarp!

HA-Ha, touche!!!

That comment did annoy me! No hard feelings tho of course.

 

I don't think he was trying to insult you - rather just saying that the debate on this subject had moved to this other thread in Technique. So I read it that he was trying to save everybody having to write the same thing twice (as I see you have done now! ) and that it would be better to carry on over there.

 

"I can see clearly now the rage has gone..."

 

Uhm... maybe they had 5 people in the audience because they sucked as a band? "The sort of band...", gimme a break, will ya?

Which technique you choose to use has nothing to do with the quality of your music. Technique is a means to an end, rather than the end itself - of course, there ARE people who think it's the other way around, but they're not musicians. You say you don't tap because it's "hideously out of fashion"... I guess Tony Levin's stick playing is terribly outdated then!

 

Yes, yes, you're right... They did suck as a band, they were all skilled, but played sh*t music.

...but I stand by the point I was making: the only time I have seen someone tapping in the last few years was in a band that played sh*t music. The majority of people you see tapping these days are playing crap, outdated metal.

It is totally acceptible in my opinion to judge "the sort of band..." about any style of music or technique.
The sort of band who use slap bass in heavy metal. The sort of band who's guitarist tunes down 2 steps. The sort of band who play all their songs at 140bpm...

Are they not? I'd say alot of exceptional musicains forged a living out of using a technique for the sake of it... Flea for example.

Fair enough, that was rubbish! ...but yes, Tony Levin playing a stick is terribley outdated Regardless of how cool it is.
outdated, but it's still cool.

 

Also brings up another question: why is it that in your words something gets the derogatory label "outdated" only becaused it's not all new?

From what I read into your posts, you seem to care about image and what, originality (not that your "british stoner sound" would be all that original), before the actual musical contents! Sorry, I don't know you in person, but from what you write, you sound like a bitter poser without a crowd!

And Flea is NOT what I would call an "exceptional musician"!

 

QUOTE: Also brings up another question: why is it that in your words something gets the derogatory label "outdated" only becaused it's not all new?

That's a good point. So I'm talking crap. I don't think something that's not new is outdated, very far from it. I'm just on a rant about 80's metal tapping...

QUOTE: From what I read into your posts, you seem to care about image and what, originality (not that your "british stoner sound" would be all that original), before the actual musical contents!
Sorry, I don't know you in person, but from what you write, you sound like a bitter poser without a crowd!

Well, there's not alot I can say in response to that, except thanks!
Where did the 'bitter poser' bit come from tho?

"And Flea is NOT what I would call an "exceptional musician"!"
OK, but you do get my point.

 

OK, maybe you're talking crap (at least that was obviously my opinion), but I also think I overreacted... sorry 'bout that. I won't continue this argument.

 

now worries... and by all means carry on, I'm cool with that.

I probly am bitter, bitter that I have to work in this damned office all day while my band is seeking recognition! Not truly deep down I'm not tho... maybe a little, I dunno?!

I'm not a poser tho.. but I am defintley concerned with image, purely coz I see so many people critcise a band for their look, regardless of the music. I must admit I'm guilty of it myself, as we probably all are, but I genuinely don't judge people on it.

Just checked out the track linked form the bottom of your post. I like it.
Your bass playing reminds me of Tom Jenkison, aka: squarepusher, but not so totally weird. If you've not heard squarepusher I'd thoroughly recommend it, it's genius... a bassist who mixes break-neck schitzo drum & bass with jazz - sounds potentially aweful, but it's fantastic!

...and as for not taking the piss out of your solo, it's bloody ace! I'd love to play stuff like that, but I cant find the right fellow musicains (and I'm probly not polished enough).
The break at about 2.50 minutes with the guitar solo is nicely groovey.. very Roy Ayers or summit of that ilk... right up my street. The slap is right on the money.

 

well, that's a major misunderstanding if I ever saw one.
I knew I should have included an emoticon there to convey the sentiment behind it, but I don't see why you took that as an insult- read that topic and my replies to it and you'll see that I wasn't slagging off players who don't use tapping/slap, AT ALL.