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Modal Interchange

Discussion in 'Music Theory [DB]' started by precision61, Jun 8, 2004.


  1. Dear All

    I just read some article online, and the writer referred to MODAL INTERCHANGE.
    What exactly is it? and How to use it?
    Any suggestions and helps?

    Thank you very much for your help.
    Pongsak
    Bangkok, Thailand
     
  2. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

    Dec 13, 1999
    NYC
    Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
    Well, maybe DURRRL or one of the resident theory heads'll chime in, but until then.

    Basically it's a "common practice" tool that will let you "exchange" the notes in a chord function without changing key. Say you're in Cmajor. And you're clipping along and suddenly there is a D7 chord. No setup, no modulation just a II7 outa nowhere. And then it's gone and for the rest of the phrase you're in C major. How do you deal with what happened? You have "exchanged" your minor 2 chord for a dominant chord by going to a mode where the 2 chord is dominant.

    Again, theory is just a collection of "observed behaviors" that seem to be prevalent. Composers would do this, it sounded good and this was a way to "explain" it.
     
  3. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    "Youuuuuu must take the A Traaaaaiinnn...."
     
  4. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY

    Gee, I always thought it was what happened when a musician dressed up in his wife's clothes, but after reading your post, I'm not so sure.

    JIFFY LUBE - if you can give an example in context (or better yet, just link the article), between the bunch of us old goofballs we can probably nail it down for you. I can think of three or four different situations where the term might apply.
     
  5. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
  6. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

    Dec 13, 1999
    NYC
    Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
    Hey whadya know? I was in the ballpark.
     
  7. Howard K

    Howard K

    Feb 14, 2002
    UK
    OK, so using that example you could use C lydian...?

    Am I right in thinking this is a common thing in jazz - to find chords that just appear 'outta nowhere'?

    In the material my band are attempting to play, there seems to be a few of these oddly placed chords. Our drummer picks all these pretty unusual numbers and the sheets seems to be more than a little odd - in my v,v limited experience at least!?


    EDIT - agree, yeah it does sound cool.. like something from Hitch Hikers Guide...
     
  8. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Hello Howard - nice to hear from you again!! Yes - it seems to be common in originals wriiten by Jazz musicians - like experiments with what will sound right - often you will get chords that are a semi-tone away or something like that. So, on Saturday I was playing this Sam Rivers tune called "Beatrice" where it has this kind of "logical" progression, but not functional...?

    So it goes :

    FMaj7 / GbMaj7 (#4)/FMaj7 / EbMaj7

    DMin7 / EbMaj7/ Dmin7 / BbMin7

    AMin7 / BbMaj7 / EMin7 A7 / DMin7

    GMin 7 / GbMaj7(#4) / F Min7 / GbMaj7(#4)


    So you have this kind of "up and down" a semi-tone in the root, which gives the form a logical "shape" - but doesn't seem to have any functional derivation - or does it...?
     
  9. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    This tune is kind of a play on tritone subs. If you discount the the quality of the 7th in many of the chords and to roots of a couple of others:


    FMaj7 / GbMaj7 (#4)/FMaj7 / EbMaj7

    DMin7 / EbMaj7/ Dmin7 / BbMin7

    AMin7 / BbMaj7 / EMin7 A7 / DMin7

    GMin 7 / GbMaj7(#4) / F Min7 / GbMaj7(#4)

    consider as --

    FMaj7 / Gb7 (#4)/FMaj7 / Eb7

    DMin7 / Eb7/ Dmin7 / C7sus (b9)

    F/A / BbMaj7 / EMin7 A7 / DMin7

    GMin 7 / C7 / F Min7 / C7(#4)

    and then the final step --

    FMaj7 / C7 (#4)/FMaj7 / A7

    DMin7 / A7/ Dmin7 / C7sus (b9)

    F / BbMaj7 / EMin7 A7 / DMin7

    GMin 7 / C7 / F Min7 / C7(#4)

    It's really a bunch of V-I's in realtive major and minor with the chord qualities changed. I think this is why these changes work so well and sound fresh after a steady diet of Tin Pan Alley tunes...
     
  10. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

    Dec 13, 1999
    NYC
    Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
    Nicely done, Raymondo.
     
  11. Thank you very much. That is very useful for a non-professional bassist like me.

    I learn the new knowledge on TBDB everyday. I love it. :)

    Pongsak

    Bangkok, Thailand
     
  12. Howard K

    Howard K

    Feb 14, 2002
    UK
    That's very intersting... copied for further study :)

    I sort of assumed, well guessed that any chord movement a semi-tone up from a tonic is some sort of tweak on the subbed V7 chord, but there's a zillion others I cant get my head round!

    I'll have to dig out some of the changes in these songs I've been attempting to learn and post some questions...

    I'm really enjoying learning at the moment, the way the changes on the sheet gradually unfold into a piece of music in your mind as you play through. I'm starting to recognise/ hear more and more changes from the sheet each time I play. I'm sure this is only the most basic level of understanding, but it's great

    I'm away in Devon next week for a friends wedding... my acoustic BG, a bunch of CDs and a load of sheets are coming with me and I'm going to work on learning a stack of melodies - some are easy.. and some arent! The Mrs loves it ;)

    H
     
  13. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    So - is this the same as what was being discussed - i.e. "borrowing" chords from other tonalities - as you say, that quality of chord doesn't 'belong' in that key - or are you saying that you see this as something different?
     
  14. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

    Dec 13, 1999
    NYC
    Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
    It's something different, using modal interchange is not a substitution. A substitution works because the chords fulfill the same function. Modal interchange ignores function. In the progression D-7 Db7 Cmaj7, the Db is acting as a substitution for the V chord G7. In the progression D-7 Db-7 Cmaj7 you are using a "borrowed" chord from another scale.
     
  15. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    Keys are really just a starting point often times, and they really more important as a point of reference for a tune as well as giving you some good, solid, diatonic notes for a particular chord or progression. Almost everything will stray away from straight, diatonic chords or everything would sound like "Happy Birthday".

    An example would be I IV III VI II V I

    In C, for example, this would be CMaj7 FMaj7 E-7 A-7 D-7 G7 CMaj7

    Rarely will you hear it this way, though. CMaj7 FMaj7 E-7 A7 D-7 G7 CMaj7 is what you'll get. The reason being is that the ear likes to hear a little more tension and release, so E-7 A7 gives your ear a V I movement as opposed to diatonic meanderings. E-7 A7 puts you in the key of D for just a sec, even though you probably would still be playing C over the E-7 as the effect of the temporary key change hasn't kicked in yet.
    Once outside of traditional Tin Pan Alley tunes, into jazz compositions of the 60's and into pop tunes of the 70's and on, there is a lot written that are 'Tone Poem' like in their compostition. Writers started stringing together chords that sound good in sequence without much regard to the standard V I progression that strings together so many of the older tunes. I've found, though, that these tone poems tend to work best for my ear when there is still some interesting tension and resolution going on. In the example of 'Beatrice' above, the root movements are suggesting traditional harmonies, but the quality of the chords have been changed. In other examples the roots of the chords might be all over the map, but the middles and tops of the chords are going down traditional paths. As an example, here are some changes from a tune that I wrote:

    D/Bb | A/C# | C/Bb | Ab7 (#11) |
    GMaj7 | A7 |C7 (#11) | |

    Playing over these can be daunting (why I do this to myself....), but let's look at the thing:

    D/Bb - D -- I chord
    A/C# - A -- V chord
    C/Bb - D7 altered
    Ab7 (#11) same
    GMaj7 - II-7/IV are really about the same chord
    A7 - obvious
    C7 (#11) - D/C7 -- there's we are back at the tonic, though be it buried at the top of the chord.

    When you play these chords, you don't necessarily hear directly what I point out in the rundown, but the chords seem to work together and I believe that this is why.
     
  16. What is it? It's f***ing precious, that's what. I am so f***ing tired of blowhard talkers it makes my hair hurt. This pedantic crap takes all the fun out of music.
    Schoenberg (no umlaut on my keyboard) simply observed that there's a difference between chord progression and chord succession and let it drop.
    I guess I'm too p ssed to make sense.
     
  17. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    I don't see why you'd be pissed at this, DonO. Although the guy wasn't very in depth or clear about his idea, what he's talking about is good information for those who are just starting to understand keys.

    I learned the concept by the term 'temporary keys' which is how I learned how to understand and approach all of the chords and progressions in a tune that had nothing to do with the key of the tune.
     
  18. Sorry Don, if my curious hurt you.




    Pongsak