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Modding a Peavey 410TVX into 2 210 cabs

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Sundogue, Nov 3, 2004.


  1. Sundogue

    Sundogue

    Apr 26, 2001
    Wausau, WI
    Does anyone out there know how I can make my Peavey 410 TVX into 2 210 cabs?

    I'm very good at woodworking, but I'm not sure how to design the cabs to best utilize the 4, 10" speakers so that I have two smaller 210 cabs. NOTE: I don't want to ruin the 410 cab. I want to make new cabs, so should I decide to sell/trade it I can always put the speakers back in the original cab

    Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? I've done tons of searching for specs and measurements, but I can't find any specific info for the 210 cab (inside/outside measurements to copy from).
     
  2. Pull cord on chainsaw offer up to middle of cab and let it rip !!

    Be carefull when the whole thing just falls apart.

    Seriouly dont ruin a good cab, sell it and by two low cost 2 x 10 cabs, if you cut the Peavey you will get zip for the remains when it comes to sell.
     
  3. Sundogue

    Sundogue

    Apr 26, 2001
    Wausau, WI
    I don't want to ruin the cab...I said...
    NOTE: I don't want to ruin the 410 cab. I want to make new cabs, so should I decide to sell/trade it I can always put the speakers back in the original cab.

    I want to make two new 210 cabs to put the speakers into.
     
  4. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    Dimensions, port tuning, cab resonant frequency determination, it all isn't worth it. You'r "new" cabs will likely perform very poorly. Odds are, you don't even know what the t/s parameters are on those existing drivers, so how are you going to design around it?

    My suggestion: sell the Peavey cab as-is, and buy two 210's from Avatar. You'll come out MUCH farther ahead . . .
     
  5. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    I'm feeling like my usual contrarian self this morning, so here's how I'd do it:

    Go here and learn how to determine Thiele-Small parameters for yourself: http://sound.westhost.com/tsp.htm

    Measure your existing cab carefully.

    Download WinISD and enter the dimensions of your existing cab, and the T-S parameters of your drivers.

    Design a 2 X10 cab in WinISD that matches the tuning of your existing cab. This assumes that you are satisfied with your existing cab's sound, of course.

    Build a test cab, but give yourself some wiggle room on the tuning. If it's a ported cab, start with a longer port than you think you need. If its sealed, make the cab a little too big. Adding material's a lot harder than removing it.

    I've hacked up tons of cabs over the years. Some of them sounded much better when I was done, and some certainly didn't. If you enjoy woodworking, you might also enjoy learning about speaker design. If you're not into buying the necessary test equipment, borrow some somehow. And check this out:
    Cabinet Building 101

    Good luck!
     
  6. Sundogue

    Sundogue

    Apr 26, 2001
    Wausau, WI
    Does anyone own a Peavey 210 cab that can give me dimensions (internal and external)?

    I'm really only interested in building a couple of 210 cabs so I'm not hauling around this 410 in the back seat of my car (which just barely fits).

    I realize that building a cab from scratch with unknown parameters requires alot of thought and planning, but I just want to get my cab(s) down to a managable size.

    The actual building of the cabs is a piece of cake. I've spent 30 years in woodworking and have all the tools. I really just need some dimensions.
     
  7. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    If you exactly halve the internal dimensions of the Peavey (to be more precise, divide the internal volume by two and the port area by two - leave the port length the same) then the cab should be tuned right for your 2x10" cabs. Once you've got the speakers out of the Peavey you should be able to measure the internal dimensions fairly accurately.

    Alex
     
  8. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    Gosh...seems like this is being made into a difficult project when it's really not (in my mind).

    Build two boxes that have half of the internal volume of your exisiting 410.

    IIRC, the 410TVX has one round port in the back. If it had two, you could simply measure them and put one in each of your new boxes.

    Tuning frequency is a relationship between the volume of the box, the area of the mouth of the port, the length of the port and a correction for the effects of the end of the tube.

    The tuning frequency of a ported loudspeaker enclosure is pretty easy to measure if you have access to a digital voltmeter (multimeter) and a computer with a sound card. Please shoot me an email or PM if you want to learn more.

    Copying the dimensions of the box and port(s) from a 210 TVX is an even better idea!

    You'll need to build a crossover for the tweeter assuming that you plan on using it. IIRC the crossover in the 410TVX also rolls off the highs from the woofer section, so you couldn't just use the same crossover as it would roll the woofers off one or more octaves too low (assuming that your 2x10s would be 4 ohms and the 410 is 8).

    Have fun!!!
     
  9. Sundogue

    Sundogue

    Apr 26, 2001
    Wausau, WI
    Well,

    I certainly didn't think it was a major project. The 410TVX is front ported (which should make it even easier to build the 2 210's). It is also a 4 ohm cab, so I will need to wire the speakers so each cab is 8ohm.
     
  10. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    Its not a mojor project to DO, just a major project to do CORRECTLY.

    What makes you think being front shelf ported makes it any easier? Its soooo much easier to do a round port off the back, that's why so many budget manufacturers do it that way. :eyebrow:
     
  11. Sundogue

    Sundogue

    Apr 26, 2001
    Wausau, WI
    Wouldn't it be easier to duplicate the port of a Peavey 210TVX when I have a 410TVX to go by? From what I can gather on Peavey's website, the 210 looks to be ported identically to the 410.

    I really don't know what the big deal is. I would think trying to find the correct rear port size/length of a different style cab would be more difficult.

    I'm not reinventing the wheel here, I'm just building 2 Peavey 210 cabs (of the same style as my existing 410 cab) and using my existing 410 speakers.

    I've got tons of plywood/handles/corners/etc. from other woodworking/cabinet projects lying around. I might need to spend all of $25 to make these.

    Or I could try to sell my existing cab to someone around here (not likely), and then buy 2 210 Peavey cabs. But I think this is a much cheaper way to go.

    Now if I were to be using my existing speakers and trying to build a new cab with a whole new set of specs, it might not be worth it.

    I was just wondering if anyone knew of the easiest way to do this without hacking my original cab apart in case I do want to sell/trade it later.

    Then again I may not even do it. It's just such a pain to haul around my 410 cab. I ain't getting any younger and the arthritis in my knees just kills me the day after a gig. Plus I have to haul this cab around in the back seat of my Saturn. It's a tight fit, but I can get it in there now. Two 210 cabs just would be easier and with 3 kids and another on the way, buying new gear is not really an option.
     
  12. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    From your posts and the nature of your questions, my best recommendation is that you pick up and browse a book called the Loudspeaker Design Cookbook. It explains porting, cab dimensions, t/s parameters, and their relationship to each other, which from your questions you don't appear to understand the basics. The port requirements of a 410 and a 210 are different, you likely won't get acceptible results by just copying one. Though the outer dimensions of the port may appear the same, the interior length likely varies. Also, the a 210 doesn't just use half of the port requirements of a 410, it just doesn't work that way.

    Wishing you the best of luck.
     
  13. Sundogue

    Sundogue

    Apr 26, 2001
    Wausau, WI
    Which is why I asked if anyone had a Peavey 210TVX that knew the dimensions.

    For obvious reasons, if I had the dimensions (internal and external) of a 210, it would be a no brainer. I'm not trying to come up with a new design, just copy an existing one.

    If my local music store had one in stock they'd let me check it out for myself. It could be that inside, the port is contructed differently, but it doesn't look any different on the outside. But I don't have one to compare.

    I've built very simple speaker cabs in the past when money was tight and played through them and they didn't sound all that bad. Over the years my hearing got a little more discerning, so now I don't really care to just build a box with holes in it for the speakers.

    I understand completely how much of a difference even subtle deviations in contruction can alter the sound (even if I don't understand all the confusing equations)...but just copying the design of a cab, that uses the exact same speakers, is a job a monkey could do.

    NOTE: If I had a Peavey 210TVX and could copy it, you'd never know which one was made by Peavey and which I made. ;)
     
  14. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    Sure, Behringer makes millions doing that!!!

    But, you're assuming that the speakers ARE identical, which isn't necessarily so. The t/s params of the speakers that you have, and those of the 210TVX might be different. They aren't always, best not to assume.
     
  15. Sundogue

    Sundogue

    Apr 26, 2001
    Wausau, WI
    I'm not doing this to make money...but to save money. I'm not into violating copyrights or patents.

    This is a simple matter of building something lighter and easier to carry around...and still feed my family. :)

    For the past 25 years or so, I've taken many cabs and replaced the speakers with different brand/spec speakers and improved my sound (even though the speakers weren't "matched" to the cab), so I feel that some of this techo-babble expounding complex algorithms to find the holy grail of cab tuning is sometimes a bit extreme.

    "it's only rock'n'roll, but I like it, like it...yes I do!"
     
  16. By the time you spend hours doing it and buying the materials you will still have more invested than if you sell the 4x10 and buy 2 2x10. Peavey, Hartke, and Carvin all come to mind as 2x10 you can get for well under $200 if you are patient. What you get from your 4x10 should cover a large chunk of that.

    This is a good thought, but a guy in the basement doing a one-off of a production cab isn't violating any laws. Even if you do go into production just change the color and the tweeter and it'sw a new product. And look at all of the Fender 'clones' out there that cost 3x what a new Fender costs. I don't see Fender getting too upset about it.
     
  17. Sundogue

    Sundogue

    Apr 26, 2001
    Wausau, WI
    Hmmm...I work a 60 hour a week job, I run a small business with my wife, I have three kids involved in everything, I'm writing a book, play in a band part time and I'm remodelling our house.

    Too much time on my hands? I don't think so. :)

    However, I could crank out a cab in an evening or two. :D

    My time is valuable...but then again, only I determine the value of it. If I can build a cab without spending hardly any money, even if it were to take me a long time...it's time spent when I feel the time is right. No pressure, so it's not like building my own things is a waste of my time. It's only a waste of my time if I'm doing it when I have, or want, to do something else with that time.
     
  18. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    This is getting kind of silly...Sundogue's asking us to help him with a tune up and we're telling him how to rebuild his transmission... :D

    Sundogue...I was looking at another thread and noticed that in FUNKonthewall's sig line, he has a Peavey 210TVX. Perhaps if you shoot him a PM he'll measure the box for you...
     
  19. Sundogue

    Sundogue

    Apr 26, 2001
    Wausau, WI
    Ah...the voice of reason...

    Thank you BillyB_from_LZ!
     
  20. ...that was way harder than it needed to be :p