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Mono Vs. Stereo? What's the real deal?

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by armyadarkness, Sep 17, 2018.

  1. TheReceder


    Jul 12, 2010
    Mono just makes me feel tired.
    s0c9, mikewalker and armyadarkness like this.
  2. Zooberwerx

    Zooberwerx Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 21, 2002
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Pretty close to my system: an old Soundcraft board, DriveRack, (3) Crown XLS power amps powering Carvin 15" 3-ways and Yorkville 18" subs. Couple of quick questions:

    *How many LEDs (Crown) are you lighting up during normal gig-volume operation (vocals only)?

    *Are the Crown attenuators fully-dimed clockwise (#10)?

    armyadarkness likes this.
  3. I have sennheiser, including 835, but I switched to heil. So much more presence
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
    mobdirt likes this.
  4. Yeah if you never messed with an x32, its epic
    Dp1363 and mobdirt like this.
  5. mobdirt

    mobdirt Guest

    Jun 14, 2017
    yes im sure any or most issues could be sorted out by some tweaking
    also saving a lot of setups and comparing them must help
    armyadarkness likes this.
  6. Wasnex


    Dec 25, 2011
    You have nice bass gear. BR15s are nowhere near the same quality. Max continuous SPL for this speaker is 121dB. It's pretty easy to overrun this level of SPL with cranked amps on stage.

    Are you hitting limiters on your speaker processor or clipping your amps? If you are hitting the limiters on the speaker processor, who set it up, and is it properly calibrated to extract the max safe SPL out of your amp and speaker combination?

    Gain structure only sets headroom. Mixing implies you set the relative volume of all channels so it sounds good. If the vocals can't go louder, then the solution for a better mix is to turn everything else down. If an amp on stage is burying the vocals in the house, move the fader on the channel zero. If decorum allows, ask the person to turn down a bit.

    If stage volume is too high, getting more capable speakers may not fix the problem. At some point, pushing the vocal mics louder will make it increasingly difficult to control feedback. Eventually you run out of tricks and cannot push the rig any louder even if the PA has lot's of headeroom left. Gain structure is important here. In my experience, when you run out of headroom in the signal path the extra distortion and compression increases the tendency for feedback.

    Good gear and proper placement of speakers and mics is essential hear. Know and understand the polar patterns of your mics so you can place monitors in the null. This varies by the mic's polar pattern. Also know the dispersion pattern of your speakers and aim them to cover the audience instead walls and other reflective surfaces. Getting the speakers high and tilting them to aim down at the audience can help reduce the amount of energy coming of the back wall of a venue and typically delivers more direct sound to the audience.
  7. I specifically turned all of those things off because it was killing the presence of the vocals. Plus with the drive rack auto eqing everything there's no feedback issues so it's not such a big deal
    DirtDog likes this.
  8. it is awesome, because no matter how much you change everything around, if you don't like it, you just reload a saved set up
    mobdirt likes this.
  9. I wouldn't think so. The driverack PA has all of those things preset into it, so once I select my speaker make and model, it already knows all of the specifications for it and sets the limiters and crossovers automatically
  10. Thank you for all of the input. You guys have all had some great suggestions that I will try over the weekend and see if they help. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something obvious by running everything in Stereo, or by only using 8 ohm speakers.
  11. Me too. And stereo just makes it twice as bad.
  12. No the crowns are at best 70%. The drive rack wizard dictates that. I dont know about the LEDs. I'll have to check
    Zooberwerx likes this.
  13. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    Sorry, will never accept this argument. I don't care if you are playing the Carpenters or the Clash, ABBA or AC/DC. A good musician can and will control their volume. Two thing I will never put up with - musicians being unprepared, and excessive volume.
  14. Wasnex


    Dec 25, 2011
    If the DriveRack considers which amp and speakers you are using, your system should be pretty much optimized. Running bridge mono would give you way more power than your speakers can handle. The BR15's power rating is basically 200W continuous, 400 program, 800 peak. Your amps put out 440W continous at 8 ohms, which IMHO is a pretty good match for these speakers. 440W is still more than enough power the damage the speakers if you push the system into compression or clipping for an extended time, so a bit of discretion is advised. Using a more powerful amp would allow the system to play louder transients, but I doubt it would allow you to get much additional volume without putting the speakers at risk.

    IMHO, I do think you need more capable speakers, but impedance is only one of many factors that should be considered.
    armyadarkness likes this.
  15. Wasnex


    Dec 25, 2011
    Given the power rating of your speakers and amps, I believe the limiters should be set just low enough to prevent the amps from clipping.
    armyadarkness likes this.
  16. monkeyfinger

    monkeyfinger Moderator Staff Member

    Warning: I did not read through the whole thread.

    With PA systems, you almost never want to bother with a stereo imaging. Why? Because stereo imaging assumes the listener is hearing from a particular point in the stereo field. This is not the case with live performances. They could be anywhere in the venue. What you want is the best mix possible in all listening locations. Often speaker placement, signal processing, etc are applied to achieve that goal.

    For your situation, you can't hear your vocals most likely because the other instruments drown you out. There are a few ways to handle this. First, the simple one, everyone turns down but you. Second, the other simple answer, you get more vocal rig. Now, for the more complex answers: Make sure you are using good mic technique. Review your gain staging. Review the eq and compression you are using. Reduce the amount of reverb and delay. Make sure you voice is slotted correctly in the mix. Start by mixing just drums and vocals. If you get it to the point where you hear both instruments properly, add guitar and keys. Get that right. Now add bass. Once you get that right, you are home free.
    mobdirt, JdoubleH, s0c9 and 4 others like this.
  17. Zooberwerx

    Zooberwerx Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 21, 2002
    Virginia Beach, VA
    That's pretty cool and sounds about right. I have an older DRPA ("derpa") and don't recall that it even offers the XLS DriveCore as an option under the set-up wizard. I do recall the optimal setting for a QSC RMX lead-sled was 37%.

    armyadarkness likes this.
  18. MDBass

    MDBass Supporting Member

    Nov 7, 2012
    Los Angeles, CA
    Endorsing Artist: Dingwall-Fender-Bergantino-Dunlop-Tech 21-Darkglass-Nordstrand
    Are only vocals, and the mp3 player, running through the PA?
    armyadarkness likes this.
  19. Wasnex


    Dec 25, 2011
    Rather than rewrite this again I'll just quote myself :bag:.
    I almost always do a bit of panning.
    Ethereal Thorn, JRA and Omega Monkey like this.
  20. five7

    five7 Supporting Member

    Dec 5, 2009
    4 ohms always helps and your gain stage needs to be set right. Make sure amps are turned all the way up and any other processors between the board and amp should be up and then you shouldn't need to clip the board. If all gain stages are up and the board is still running hot, well then you need louder amps and speakers.
    armyadarkness likes this.
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

    Apr 15, 2021

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