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Mono Vs. Stereo? What's the real deal?

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by armyadarkness, Sep 17, 2018.


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  1. nbsipics

    nbsipics Ours' is the only Reality of Consequence Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 8, 2016
    Hey - that was my guess! Bass eats everything, especially sub-bass emitting from the stage.
    Push those belly-wrecking-waves out into the space a little bit more, and I bet the vocals can
    get a chance to work. And normal Bass. And even guitar and drums ( ah, screw them :).

    I appreciate anything more you can share about those cardoid subs if you can. Sorry for the derail Army!
     
    armyadarkness likes this.
  2. Well it does frequently come up in any discussion regarding the X32, but, no I do not know the particulars. I will say that the "cutting through" issue seems mostly a problem at close proximity. When you go out 20 feet, the vocals are all but over powering.

    So... Obviously, it is a frequency issue (as many have eluded to), maybe IEM's so that the band can hear better are all that's needed? Certainly, that's been suggested here by a few.
     
  3. Well I definitely don't mind going that route, and many here have suggested the same.
     
  4. Thanks for the advice and yes, you're correct, I'm not above being a humble learner, and I'm a good student. With a rig like the X32, especially the rack version, you really have to be.

    I have tried to find a sound guy to get involved, but the level of commitment, skill, and enthusiasm in South Jersey is very low. In fact, I'd wager that the responses to this post have been more carefully considered and handled here at TB than they would anywhere else on the web.

    I did a fair amount of research on the web before posting here, and I largely found a lot of Hooey! But as usual, my fellow TBers are taking it serious and trying to help, so I'm all ears.
     
    Evildrwallace likes this.
  5. 73jbass

    73jbass Supporting Member

    Apr 17, 2004
    Ellenwood,Ga.
    Go mono. Nobody in the audience will know or even care.
     
    lfmn16 and armyadarkness like this.
  6. Blaze Barlow

    Blaze Barlow

    Mar 8, 2018
    Nashville
    well army..as others have mentioned there could be an array of problems tat are keeping the vocals from being out front..I worked for a sound company for many years and vocals out front was always a primary mission..I think that the biggest thing that would help you is to get horns that have a larger diaphragm or "throat"..we always used horns that had a 3 inch throat..the yamaha's that you have are only 1 inch..so..if you want vocals out front..get 3 inch diaphragms..we used JBL's in our EAW cabs for the horn drivers..the increase sibilance and power of the bigger horns will get the vocals where you need to be..just a passing thought here..I tried a driverack once and I couldnt get along with it..so I am using brooke siren crossovers..I am going from the board to 31 band EQ's..to dbx compressors..to crossovers..and to the stage..another mention is that we always used 4 0hm cabs..
     
  7. Well right now, as it sits, the guitarist is down as low as he can be, while still being able to hear him along with the acoustic drums... So, I'm optimistic that I'm on the way to resolving portions of the problem. This guitarist is new, so I can't say for sure yet... But it's his own vocals that are getting washed out, so he has incentive to work with me on it.

    Most of the guys that I find, whom want to sing, rarely have a clue how about hard it is to do well when you can't hear. Couple that with the fact that most of the guitarists in South Jersey think that the same "face melt Marshall volume" that works in moms basement can work in a band... and poof. It's an uphill battle.
     
  8. I suspect that to be completely true... even the MP3 player won't know it!
     
  9. That's what I am curious about. I do think my trusty old b15's might be too small for the task.
     
  10. No it's not, but it's not always so easy either. The drummer hits how he hits, and the guitarist plays as loud as he has to to be heard over the drummer... Then there's a bit of preference, difference of opinion, ego, habit...

    On my bass, if the D string isn't loud enough, I lower the E and the A. But I do think that before doing that, it does pay to make sure that the other minimum requirements are in place, and that being said... As I mentioned earlier, for all I knew, merely switching to mono could resolve a lot of the issues.
     
  11. mellowinman

    mellowinman Free Man

    Oct 19, 2011
    Minneapolis
    Is the guitarist making sure he is in his own "Sweet Spot?"
     
  12. These are the ones that I have in storage. I bought em over 25 years agao, and they have been in storage at least 20! I haven't tried using them, but I can. They're just old and heavy! JBL MR935
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Well the DBX definitely has a terrific tone generator, and an RTZ mic, so it rings out the system well, and gets very involved, but if I want to do that without the DBX, then yes, I'd have to seek another method.
     
  14. thanks for the well though out response. With the Driverack, I just use a wizard, so I have no twisting to do at all.

    It asks;
    1. What make and model of mains?
    2. What amp for mains?
    3. Stereo or Mono?
    4. Are you using subs?
    5. What make and model?
    6. Stereo or mono?
    7. Do you have an RTA mic?
    8. Set your amps to 70%.
    9. Press continue.
    Then it makes a bunch of noises like a dolphin and it tells you if any attenuators need to be raised or lowered. Then you put the mic in 10 locations through out the room, it makes more noises and reads them, which sets the auto EQ.

    Then you slowly raise the master until it starts to feedback, and it'll set up to six notch filters. When done, you save the scene and your done. I guess it sound gimmicky, but it really is feature packed, and while the X32 may not need it, it really is a very cool and functional piece that I don't regret buying.
     
  15. lfmn16

    lfmn16 Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2011
    charles town, wv
    I'm not trying to be argumentative, but if your vocals can't be heard through " 3 Crown 2500 Power Amps (mains, monitors, subs), an X32 Mixer, and DBX Driverack PA2 loudspeaker management system. The mains are Yamaha BR15 2-ways, running at 8ohms, and subs are JBL 18's running at 8ohms." then something is wrong. That's a lot of horsepower and speakers.
     
    armyadarkness likes this.
  16. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    If you have a multi-meter you could measure the voltage on the output of the amps when the limiters are engaged to calculate the wattage the limiters are set to. [(Volts squared) divided by impedance (Z)] = watts. The figure won't be exact as the speaker does not provide a uniform load and minimum Z is used for the limiter calculations instead of the nominal Z of 8 ohms. The minimum Z is probably around 6 ohms.
     
    armyadarkness likes this.
  17. Lol... No doubt, but my way relies on my wallet (which I control), and your way relies on their intelligence. I trust and value your advice, so I'll take it, but I wouldn't like to wager on these odds.

    But as I said, once I establish that my setup is right, then I have no problem having a conversation with the band about volume.
     
    JRA likes this.
  18. You have free reign in my world my friend...
     
  19. It's all good, and thanks for the concern. You and I have crossed paths before, and your advice holds high value with me. I trust that your concern is for my resolving my issue, and I am desperate to do so.

    This thread was to just verify that I had the right tools and settings to do so.

    If the new guitarist works, it wont even be an issue, but I'd be cheating myself if I didn't seek out the knowledge, regardless of whether or not I needed it.

    So it sounds like you think that I'll be okay with just the BR's and subs?
     
  20. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    I totally understand. I do recommend you confirm the system is optimized through a bit of testing. My experience with this sort of device is they don't always make the best choices when they start analyzing waveforms.

    Since the system is not loud enough, confirm the amps are being allowed to make almost all of their full power before the limiters kick in, and the gain staging is set so the amps are at full power when mixer indicates approximately 0 dB on the output meters. You can drop the gain as needed in small indoor venues, but you need to know what settings are required for your system to operate at it's max potential. This allows you to get maximum possible volume when you need it without destroying speaker components.

    My intent is to help confirm that the speakers and amps are operating at their full potential before you go down the road of replacing them. The next step, IMHO, would be to set a budget. After that explore the different amp speaker combinations to see what sort of performance enhancements are possible. Keep in mind, if you get louder mains you are probably going to want/need louder subs as well.
     
    armyadarkness likes this.
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
    Apr 22, 2021

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