monsters in training

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by john turner, Jan 23, 2009.

  1. crimson_basser


    Jul 9, 2008
    Endorsing Artist: Spector Basses
    I know in most of the Quebec leagues ive played and ref'd in, there was always a 15-20 point grace rule.

    You could not full court press if your team was up by that amount or more, which helped keep the scores under control.

    Obviously, that didnt stop teams from blowing eachother out, it does happen and it is part of sport.

    But what's bad about this situation is that there was no NEED to run up the score that high. It's not professional sports, it's a high school basketball league. I wont comment on it being "christ-like" or not, like they say in the article, but it definitely wasn't sportsmanlike, considering the circumstances.

    Im not saying that everyone should tip toe around and avoid hurting anyone/everyones feelings, but this was unecessary. And i think the coach should have (morally) told the team to hold back. Him saying what he's saying now is a bit ridiculous. They could have still gotten their win without making themselves be the enemy to everyone else.

    I agree that maybe this other team isnt classified in the right division or whatever, but i mean, look at the schools situation, you cant expect them to be world champions.
  2. Stigs


    Sep 29, 2007
    Richmond, Virginia
    Meh, I don't really feel sorry for the losing team, nor do I think they should be ashamed of the game.

    After all, it's just a game. Both teams show up and play as hard as you can until the end. Slowing down or giving up would've been bad for both teams, if they had stopped at around 50 or so and let the other team score a few, that devalues those points and their efforts if they aren't playing against any competition.

    As long as the winning team wasn't taunting or insulting the other players, I think they should be able to play their best until the final buzzer. I'd rather lose by a lot against a team that kept playing, seeing them intentionally let my team score a few and play easy against us just to lose 50-10 would be more insulting than losing 100-0.
  3. Exactly. I played lacrosse for years and the first few years my team sucked, I know what it is like to loose 20-0 (high score for box lacrosse). After those first two years, we were a lot better and started winning a lot, then started winning by a lot. We won a game 37-1 once, there was no way we were going to start letting up, we just started trying out fancier stuff. Same thing when I played soccer, there was one team that sucked, but they always came out and played hard, even when we would beat them 15-0.

  4. Darkstrike

    Darkstrike Return Of The King!

    Sep 14, 2007
    Yes, but did your team(when you were loosing), or those other teams, have disabilitys?
  5. I have dyslexia, our goalie had ADHD and one of our top scorers was blind in one eye. No idea about the other teams.

  6. crimson_basser


    Jul 9, 2008
    Endorsing Artist: Spector Basses
    I see your points, but i just think 100-0 is a bit excessive, tis all
  7. Darkstrike

    Darkstrike Return Of The King!

    Sep 14, 2007
    :meh: In fairness, you backed it up! Good on you!

    I'll honestly say though, i might be over sensetive to this stuff, as my sister is disabled(more so than comes into this kind of situation), I can see both sides of the story, but still, I think they could have at least slowed up before 100. I mean come on, at 70 there was no chance, they could have slowed down, not even to give the other team freeshots and stuff, but relaxed the pace.

    No one is saying they should have lost, or played a much closer game, but hammering them into the dirt was uncalled for.
  8. rezin


    Sep 26, 2006
    Madison, WI
    i think this is all pathetic.

    let me ask you this. if you're competing in something what's worse: getting blown out or the other team pitying you because you're that bad?

    it's a competitive sport, it's not life. the goal isn't to make the other team feel good about itself once you get past 3rd grade

    they weren't physically disabled, but if that was a concern they wouldn't be allowed to compete.
  9. I see your point, but life doesn't take it easy on you because you have a disability (I actually think my dyslexia is an ability). I see no reason to take it easy. If the other team all had Downs or something like that, then yes, don't be a jerk about it, but then again, I have no idea why they would be playing each other if that was the case. IMO it is harmful to hold up in a situation like that, life isn't fair and everyone can't be a winner.

    If the winning team was making fun of the other team and started trash talking, then I would be outraged, but that didn't happen. That would have been unsportmanlike. Not taking it easy, is not unsportmanlike.

  10. Darkstrike

    Darkstrike Return Of The King!

    Sep 14, 2007
    I think I understand you better now, I'm used to dealing with a lot, but because of a major disability(obviously, this situation would never come up), I actually, to be honest, know little of minor ones.

    I do still feel that something is wrong with the way the winners acted(again, even 70 points was a guaranteed victory), but more important, IMO, it the great way the loosing team have responded.
  11. hbarcat

    hbarcat Supporting Member

    Aug 24, 2006
    Rochelle, Illinois
    I suppose one could get mad at the winning team and say that they are all a bunch of mean spirited jerks who blew out the other team because they have contempt for the kids who ride the short bus and wanted to humiliate them. And maybe that is exactly what happened.

    But I'd like to play devil's advocate for a moment and consider the possibility that they are just your average high school kids who expected this to be a real game and when they discovered that they could score at will they got a little carried away with the competitive aspect of basketball and looked at this as nothing more and nothing less than an opportunity to add to their official stats with no one getting hurt. After all, what's the difference if your competition loses 50-0 or 100-0 ?

    Failing to take into consideration the feelings of the losers in a sports competition where the losers are grossly humiliated by the outcome is a failure of character, to be sure. But to earn the label of "monsters" should require that the winning team acted out of spite or willingness to humiliate the losers and I don't think anything in this story supports that conclusion. I think it's just as likely that could have won 200-0 and had the losing team crying on the court if that had been their motivation.
  12. hbarcat

    hbarcat Supporting Member

    Aug 24, 2006
    Rochelle, Illinois
    The story says that the losing team has been winless over the last four years. What is a typical score for one of their games? 78-2? 55-0? 94-3? Does the team that beat them 86-4 also deserve to be condemned as mean spirited jerks or do they get a pass because they let the losers score two baskets and didn't push their own score into 3 figures territory?

    Considering there is no mercy rule in the league, what would you do if you were playing against them and the score at the half was 40-0? Would you just not try to score any more points and let the other team try their best to catch up without any opposition? Or just quit and tell everyone to go home because the whole situation sucks for everybody and the game itself is a farce?

    I've seen this happen on one my men's league hockey teams and I think of it as adding insult to injury. The local city college had too many players interested in our league to fit on one team so they had an A team and a B team. That made 8 teams in the league ranging in skill from my team with several minor league professionals on it and the college B team having people who could barely skate.

    The first game we played against them, we managed to blow them out 20-0 and that was without breaking a sweat. We seriously didn't even try and we were standing around having conversations on the ice while the other team tried in vain to put the puck into our net without anyone really trying to stop them.

    It was truly no fun for anyone and when we played them again later in the season we decided to play for only 5 minutes and use that as the final score for the game (we won 6-0) and then we reshuffled the team rosters and played rat hockey for the next hour and a half. The league actually gave us a hard time about it because the stats and timing didn't work out and they wanted us both to forfeit the game :rollno:
  13. That article made me angry and confused, but I'm not sure why exactly. Though, I could be angry because I'm confused...

    ...I should probably just stop thinking now.
  14. Jared Lash

    Jared Lash Born under punches Supporting Member

    Aug 21, 2006
    Denver, CO
    True. Jesus was all about the beatdowns. Ask the money changers in the temple. And I'm guessing he was only around 5'10" but he was cut like a PG and was always assisting people. He'd probably be a better rebounder if he didn't hate the phrase "go to the boards".

    Honestly, I don't know what you're talking about in terms of the gospels. I don't have an opinion one way or the other, but you think Jesus would be in favor of running up the score?

    Regardless of whether or not it was the Christian thing to do, it's poor sportsmanship on the coach's part. When I started teaching I was the freshman boys coach for a couple years. Our practice nights coincided with the girl's game nights in the adjacent gym. So when the boys were practicing free throws or running a few drills with my assistant, I'd go check on their games.

    Our girls team was always dominant in our league and was usually ranked top 5 in the state. They would crush teams. And so I'd routinely see scores like 88-12 or 76-30. And yet, the varsity coach would leave the starters in halfway through the fourth quarter and would still be pressing and trapping and screaming on the sidelines and generally being pretty abusive despite the margin.

    His argument was that he had to prepare his girls for postseason play against "real opponents" so they had to crush these teams just to stay sharp. I still say that's poor sportsmanship. So did the parents who eventually petitioned to have him fired. The new coach had the same sort of success, but "battle tested" his team early at high level invitational tournaments rather than smashing on obviously overmatched teams in league.
  15. PSPookie

    PSPookie Supporting Member

    Aug 13, 2006
    Albuquerque, NM
    And lo, Jebus spake on high and the Lord sayeth: "Humiliate thine clearly overmatched opponent for verily they art inferior to you and deserve not dignity nor respect."

    See, I went to Sunday school too.

    While I think that it is awesome that you and your lacrosse team were able to overcome your challenges, it's probably time that you got rid of that chip on your shoulder.
  16. I saw an interview with the coach and the girls from the losing team. There was NO hint that these kids had any sort of real learning disability that would actually get in the way of them playing basketball. They're just seem to be really, really bad, and the other team was pretty decent. What would you expect the other team to do? If they didn't play hard and to the best of their ability, they would have been considered condescending and demeaning.

    It was certainly a mismatched game, but I don't see why this made the news.
  17. Why is this [vastly inferior] team in this league? Are the other games they participate in much different? What is the language of the "no mercy" rule?

    If I were the coach of the winning team, I suspect I would have put in 3rd stringers and told them to slow it like molasses.

    Having said that:

    I have both, and it's got nothing to do with athletics. As a matter of fact, many elete athletes in the NFL, NBA, MLB and so on are about as smart as a box of rocks. It's a non-issue here.
  18. PSPookie

    PSPookie Supporting Member

    Aug 13, 2006
    Albuquerque, NM
    I believe they are referring to the absence of a "mercy" rule whereby the game is ended ealry in the event of a severly lopsided score. For example, one might choose to make a rule where a basketball game is ended ended at the half if one team leads by 50 or more points.

    A league with a "no mercy" rule seems a bit harsh for HS sports ;)
  19. Jared Lash

    Jared Lash Born under punches Supporting Member

    Aug 21, 2006
    Denver, CO
    There is a difference between playing hard, and going overboard in a game that is clearly decided.

    I'm not sure how familiar you are with basketball, so forgive me if this is something you already know, but on the high school level, especially with good girls teams, they routinely utilize a press and trap or some version of a full court press. Teams that are very good can make it so inferior teams only get the ball across halfcourt a handful of times in a quarter. My guess is that's what happened here.

    If the coach of the winning team subbed out his starting five and was playing a traditional half court defense, then I wouldn't have a problem with a lopsided score. But if he was leaving his starters in and pressing and trapping when his team was leading, say 80-0 (and that's the impression I got from reading about this game) then I find that disrespectful and unnecessary.
  20. We're forgetting one question here:

    It was stated that this team has been suffering losses like this for the last FOUR YEARS. Why does the school continue to fund this team, and where do they get the coaches to train players this horribly?
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