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Mooch is Gone!

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by burk48237, Nov 28, 2005.


  1. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    Well the Lions fired Steve Mariucci today. Kinda of surprising since he was about to guide them to a record six wins! :D How can a coach make you long for the days of Wayne Fontes? This offense was a joke, no rhythm, no plan, and no common sense. How can you have a back (Kevin Jones) who gains 25 yards on his first two carries only get the ball one more time in the first half? How can you draft Charles Rogers with the SECOND PICK in the draft and not even through him the ball till the fourth quarter? And why do you have a portfolio full of 2 yard pass plays? They were an utter Joke! Don't worry Lions fans thew next coach is going to take them to the Super Bowl! Guaranteed!

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5117306
     
  2. mrpackerguy

    mrpackerguy Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2004
    Madison, Wisconsin
    I'm kinda shocked by that.
     
  3. JimK

    JimK

    Dec 12, 1999
    Fontes was good for not using Barry sanders, either...especially when his Run & Shoot/Silver Stretch/whatever offense had the lead & they really needed to work the clock!
    I should know 'cause I had Sanders on my fantasy team throughout the '90s & it really P'd me off!
    ;)
    [/QUOTE]
     
  4. chris4001asat

    chris4001asat

    Dec 16, 2002
    Toledo, Ohio
    Warehouse Manager : Reverend Guitars
    Who thinks Mooch will end up at Green Bay next year? Farve said he won't come back to a different coaching system, but Mooch was Farve's first QB coach.
    I really thought they should've gave Gary Moeller (sp) a chance. The players really responded to him when Bobby Ross went down.
     
  5. Dan1099

    Dan1099 Dumbing My Process Down

    Aug 7, 2004
    Michigan
    So what do you think? The next guy gonna stick with the west coast offense?
     
  6. mrpackerguy

    mrpackerguy Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2004
    Madison, Wisconsin
    That's an interesting concept. Favre and Mooch are buddies. Personally, I think it'd be a mistake. The injuries, the turnover disease, the missed tackles...those aren't Sherman's fault. The play calling has been shoddy to say the least, but that's one cohesive lockerroom from what I understand, despite the 2-9 record. Not one player has even implied coaching is at fault. I think SHerman deserves another year. Mooch as Offensive coordinator or some euch thing? Sure!
     
  7. jive1

    jive1 Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jan 16, 2003
    Alexandria,VA
    Owner/Retailer: Jive Sound
    They shouldn't go with a West Coast offense. The personnel they have just doesn't fit the system. At least Harrington doesn't. It's amazing how many offensive weapons they have, but they don't use them effectively.

    Lions fans speak up. How many times can you stand to watch a draw play to Bryson on 3rd and long? It worked one time, yet they use it all the time.

    Kevin Jones is a talented back, a bruiser with some speed, yet they never utilize him. The kid can go out an kill people, and they have a talented FB in Sledge, yet they can't get the ground game going. The line has some issues, but even teams with turnstyle lines like the Rams get some yards on the ground.

    The WCO needs a quick QB who can make quick reads, make a fast drop and throw short to intermediate passes for long gains. Unfortunately, that ain't Joey. He's better suited for a vertical game as a pocket passer, and handing the ball off the a decent runner. The WCO also requires a versatile and quick RB who can catch the ball, and receivers who can make reads at the line of scrimmage, run precise routes, and make yards after the catch. KJ can fit the RB mold, but he's shown alot more strength this season than I gave him credit for. I'd like to see what he could do if he develops his ability to run between the tackles. The WRs might be able to work a WCO, but they are so young and inexperienced that it doesn't work well for them. I wouldn't call these guys the smartest bunch of players either. They have three guys who are best at running a deep route and winning the fight to make the grab, i.e. Herman Moore. Out of Roy, Mike, and Charles only Charles is really a YAC type of guy in the NFL. Unfortunately these guys haven't flourished under the WCO. A guy like Kerry Collins or Randall Cunningham that like to huck the ball up and let the receiver make the play would love these guys, but that's not Mooch's system.

    A simpler and conservative offense would benefit this team. If Jauron takes over as head coach, I think he'd tend towards that. They also need to fire Tollner. Total idiot. A new coach and new system is what's needed to breathe new life into a young team. The D is definitely improved, and KJ would make a decent ball control RB if he can prove his durability. Imagine if RW,MW,Pollard, and Sledge were blocking downfield. They need to give Harrington some time to develop and gain confidence in his receivers. In order to do that they need to have a system that he can get comfortable in.

    Morniweg showed that the WCO wasn't working under him. Mooch showed that the WCO just isn't working in the Motor City.
     
  8. cheezewiz

    cheezewiz

    Mar 27, 2002
    Ohio
    Possible, but unlikely. From what I have read, Mooch is a "players coach". MUCH too easy on the players, and doesn't hold them accountable for their mistakes. That is the EXACT reason Ray Rhodes got run out of Green Bay after one year. It wasn't because he went 8-8 and it certainly wasn't because of his race like the race baiters like J Jackson implied, it was because he lost COMPLETE control of the team, and wasn't respected by the players. I'd LOVE to see Mooch in Green Bay as the offensive coordinator, but not as head coach.

    Oh..and as far as blaming Mooch for the Lions suckage, I'd say that ball is squarely in Matt Millen's court. He drafted THE SAME GUY (Rogers, Williams, Williams) three years in a row, because of his love hate obsession with Harrington.
     
  9. Dan1099

    Dan1099 Dumbing My Process Down

    Aug 7, 2004
    Michigan
    Yeah. This team isn't going anywhere fast with Millen around.
     
  10. chris4001asat

    chris4001asat

    Dec 16, 2002
    Toledo, Ohio
    Warehouse Manager : Reverend Guitars
    I kinda liked Millen, until I found out he fired Mooch before he knew if Juaron would take over. Right now, Jauron is saying no unless they give him a long term deal. I think if Jauron took the interim coach, he'd never go back to the D coach. I think I prefer him there.
     
  11. jive1

    jive1 Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jan 16, 2003
    Alexandria,VA
    Owner/Retailer: Jive Sound
    Similar to Denny Green, Mike Tice, etc. player's coaches don't seem to do well in managing their team. They can only get them so far, and when the going get's tough the teams lack discipline.

    Millen has hurt the Lions in terms of drafts, but considering the failures in the front office prior to Millen the last few aren't as bad. At least these guys weren't busts like Andre Ware, Aaron Gibson, or Bryant Westbrook. Even though Millen doesn't seem prudent with his first rounders, he's still made some solid picks with Lehman, S. Rogers, Cody, Jones, Bailey, and Backus. Picking up Bly in free agency was a good move, and adding Kenoy Kennedy further improves the D, as can be seen when you compare their stats from last season.

    Between Mooch and Morniwheg, some really talented players have been wasted.
     
  12. jive1

    jive1 Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jan 16, 2003
    Alexandria,VA
    Owner/Retailer: Jive Sound
    Interestingly enough, Jauron is also a player's coach. Fans in Chicago were worked up because they thought he was soft. He didn't use blocking sleds, required less time in the film room, etc.
     
  13. cheezewiz

    cheezewiz

    Mar 27, 2002
    Ohio
    Another factor is that Jauron and Mooch are extrememly tight, dating back to their Green Bay days. Jauron may not want to replace one of his best buddies.
     
  14. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    What he said!!!!!
     
  15. cheezewiz

    cheezewiz

    Mar 27, 2002
    Ohio
    For the WCO to be productive, you have to have the right type of players, just as Jive said. Think the 80s Niners, or the mid/late 90's Packers. THOSE are the type of players you need for a WCO.
     
  16. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    I'm not sold on Millen yet. But I must admit they have had some very good drafts on the defensive side, and healthy, I think their defense is in the top ten in whole league. Provided their offense can keep them off the field. But the coaching on the offensive end this year was inexcusable. And even thought the O Line has been mediocre, they managed to move the ball on the ground last year when they actually handed it to their best running back (Jones). Their play calling is predictable, conservative, and shows zero imagination. Third and ten, eight yard pass plays sum up their system!

    Here is a list of Lion's coaches who have left the lions and gone on to find success elsewhere:


















    :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:
     
  17. jive1

    jive1 Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jan 16, 2003
    Alexandria,VA
    Owner/Retailer: Jive Sound
    Don't forget the draw play to Bryson. 3rd and 14, draw play to Bryson for 3 yards! My bud who is a Kitties fan was actually pissed off the one time when Bryson ran the draw play for a long TD because it meant that Mooch would never abandon that play. The Bryson draw play started to be a joke at the bar. It was funny because when it was a 3rd and long, we'd both call a draw play and seconds later we'd see it's glory on the TV screen.

    Have you forgotten Tom Moore (Colts OC) so quickly?
     
  18. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    I was thinking of head coaches. Marty M actually did a decent job with the Eagles offense last year until they got to the Super Bowl and he went to "consume the clock" offense down two TD's in the fourth quarter.
     
  19. cheezewiz

    cheezewiz

    Mar 27, 2002
    Ohio
    As Packers fans, we actually have FOUR choices on third and long.
    It is ALWAYS one of the four though. My buddy and I who watch every game usually call at least 75 percent of them right.

    Screen pass...usually gains 1 to 3 yards
    Shovel pass....usually a 2 yard loss
    About a 6-7 yard quick slant...incomplete, or 6-7 yards total if caught
    Or....EVERYONE's favorite....the draw for a 3 yard gain.
     
  20. Its because I the OC thinks "Hey if we do a shovel pass and lose 2 yards, the other team will be shell shocked." Yea, shell shocked at the dumbass play you just ran.

    Watching games over the last couple of weeks, it seems like a lot of teams on third and long try and do either a draw, toss or throw a screen/quick hitch/quick out and then be surprised that they didn't get a first down. Whats up with that?