1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  
     
    TalkBass.com has been uniting the low end since 1998.  Join us! :)

Moog LPF alternatives?

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by kevteop, Apr 29, 2009.


  1. kevteop

    kevteop

    Feb 12, 2008
    York, UK
    I'm currently using a Meatwad with an expression pedal for my manual low-pass shenanigans, but I was thinking about trying out some alternatives. Well, primarily I was going to buy the Moog LPF for comparison's sake.

    Then I noticed the Moog was nearly three times as big as my Meatwad and I'd have nowhere to put it. So now I'm looking for a more compact expression-sweepable low-pass filter.

    Any ideas? I looked at the EBS Wah One but it doesn't seem to be designed for extreme stuff, and the fact that they put things like a "Tube Sim" button on it suggests they weren't thinking in a very joined-up way the day they designed it. I know there's the Stan Clarke model coming out at some point but it's not out now, so let's pretend it doesn't exist.
     
  2. fightthepower

    fightthepower

    Jan 7, 2008
    San Diego
    I went through this for a while... and ultimately said **** it and got the Moog.

    I have a Photron now as well, but the mp201 doesn't work with it, and when I plug a regular exp pedal into it, I can't turn the envelope off and set it up for use as a sweepable lowpass filter---- I mean, I can but I can't set the cutoff frequency or make linear adjustments...

    Im sending mine in to robot factory today to see what he can do. I'd have recommended, as it is a combier filter than the meatball style filters, but mine has never worked like that for me yet, so we'll see if he can fix it. It's also pretty big.. not moog big but bigger than the grinder/meatwad. Until then, all I can say is that you'll probably be wanting the Moog.
     
  3. kevteop

    kevteop

    Feb 12, 2008
    York, UK
    Why won't the MP-201 work with the PhoTron? I thought it was pretty universal.

    I was actually considering getting an MP-201 instead, because it would allow me to be more specific about the range of sweep I got from the Meatwad. But if it doesn't work with the PhoTron I'm not all that confident it will work with the Meatwad either.
     
  4. fightthepower

    fightthepower

    Jan 7, 2008
    San Diego
    Well not much works with the photron... after multiple emails back and forth i still don't know if its a bad design or what. It doesn't really work with an EP-1.. and they were tested with EP-2s... Supposedly when I get it back it should work with the MP201 (audio shuts off when plugged in) and when I plug and EP-1 in, I should be able to set the center/cutoff frequency with the 'Frequency' knob (which doesnt work when plugged in now..).

    Even if all that stuff works, I still don't know if I'll be able to fully turn the envelope off and get any linear adjustment out of this damn thing..

    Everything else I have works with the MP201, including the other Robot Factory pedal.. the Tentacle Love ********.
     
  5. kevteop

    kevteop

    Feb 12, 2008
    York, UK
    Sounds like you're having a nightmare of a time with that filter.

    Well I definitely won't get a 201 and a LPF on this board, unless I throw out half of the other pedals... I still think I need to find an alternative to the Moog.
     
  6. marc40a

    marc40a

    Mar 20, 2002
    Boston MA
    What about the Guyatone Ultron?...it seems to offer several options of which parameters are controlled by the expression pedal.

    Unfortunately, it would also use a lot of real estate on the board.
     
  7. fightthepower

    fightthepower

    Jan 7, 2008
    San Diego
    Get the 201 next to the board! :D I was in your shoes and thinking of buying the Wahone for a while. I didn't find one in my price range before hearing news of the StanWah, which I then decided to hold out for. Well, I found a good deal on the Moog, got it, and immediately decided I was being stupid for not wanting to get the Moog inorder to do something a little different-- its the perfect lowpass for the stuff Im doing (despite the bypass and size, though I wasnt short on space at the time and had a bypass looper already..)

    At the moment, with the Photron Im unable to do any adjustment/modulation in the lower frequencies with external expression/lfo. But, but with the built in LFO I can, so in the bit of messing around I've done with the built in lfo and the resonance at 0, it seems to share some of the fat combyness of the Moog.

    If I wasn't dealing with these 'quirks' Id totally recommend this filter because it seems like a happy medium between the Meatwad and Moog. Ill keep you posted on the progress of the Photron, and whether or not mario is able to iron out the issues.
     
  8. Jared Lash

    Jared Lash Born under punches Supporting Member

    Aug 21, 2006
    Northern California
    It's funny because part of my reason for not wanting the Moog LPF was to have a more "original" board. Well, now I'm one of a huge number of people with an OC-2 AND a Moog. Sort of hurts my hipster street cred, but ultimately provides me the tools I need.

    Long story short, kev I haven't found a pedal that can do the job better than the Moog.

    BUT - the Agent 00Funk is a lowpass filter. Have you tried emailing Richard Cartwright to ask him if the enventual expression pedal upgrade to the Octavius Squeezer might give you what you need? My guess is that if at some point it does it may not be any different from the Meatwad, but it's worth asking about.
     
  9. kevteop

    kevteop

    Feb 12, 2008
    York, UK
    Actually I think it will probably work well on the Squeezer (when it eventually arrives), because you can set the limits of the filter with each patch. But my Squeezer isn't in the best position to be used like that - I've got it early in my chain as an all-purpose env. filter, fuzz and occasional waveform generator. I'd ideally like another filter at the end of my chain.
     
  10. rnilson

    rnilson

    Mar 8, 2008
    Kansas City, MO
    Dang that is good to know. I was going to have Mario build me an MS-20 filter clone for HP/BP/LP stuff, but if it doesn't like the MP 201 CV input it won't work for me. Keep us posted.
     
  11. dannybuoy

    dannybuoy

    Aug 3, 2005
    England
    I also really want the Moog but without the big box and big pricetag. I've found a few schematics of Moog, Wasp and MS-20 low pass filters though, it looks like DIY is the best option right now.
     
  12. fightthepower

    fightthepower

    Jan 7, 2008
    San Diego
    Well he basically said that he can make it work, though I still don't know why it doesn't work now, being that it works with every other pedal I have including another Robot Factory pedal.

    The problem is, even if it worked like a passive pedal does, ie Moog EP-1, in the current state, the 'frequency' knob is disabled when an exp pedal is plugged into the 'frequency input, so I can't set the center/cutoff frequency. At heel down with filter sensitivity off, the filter is completely closed, with no audio passing through and I am unable to adjust this.

    In all settings with an exp plugged in, enveloping or not, I don't get linear adjustments. All the sweep happens in 10% of the actual exp sweep- the filter pops open, whether or not the envelope is active. I've had similar issues with other pedals and a yamaha FC-7 due to the potentiometer value, but the Photron exhibits this with the 4 exp pedals I own, including one of the recommended expression pedals- the moog.

    I bought the pedal used, and it was modded by Robot Factory for two extra inputs, lfo depth and width (which I dont need anyway), so hopefully it just had some other modification that affected the operation of the pedal or something.. and will work like other filters when I get it back. I haven't had the best experience with the robot factory pedals so far, but Mario responded quickly and in depth to each of my recent emails and Im about to head to FedEx to ship the pedal, so hopefully it will all have a happy ending and Ill be able to recommend some of his stuff in good faith.
     
  13. rnilson

    rnilson

    Mar 8, 2008
    Kansas City, MO
    When talking with him he said that passive VS active CV does not matter for the cutoff sweep input.

    Yeah, that would make the pedal unusable for me for me, as I assume it is doing for you. I've got to be able to sweep the cutoff filter and be able to set the resting point with the freq knob, ie like the moog. How dose it filter? It sounds like it is not as thick as the moog and far as extreme filtering.
    I don't understand why there is not more MS-20 filter section clones out there. A HP/LP filter in series is just such a useful tool.
    Dang, I wish I could find a frostwave resonator! Somebody please clone the clone.:D
     
  14. Nyarlathotep

    Nyarlathotep Banned

    Feb 5, 2006
    West Coast of Canada
    subscrizzled. is the 00funk an LPF? I thought it would be a BPF like most wah type filters.....
     
  15. Jared Lash

    Jared Lash Born under punches Supporting Member

    Aug 21, 2006
    Northern California
    Yep, it's a LPF. Quite a few filters are, or can switch between BP & LP.
     
  16. fightthepower

    fightthepower

    Jan 7, 2008
    San Diego
    It hasn't with all of my other pedals. When describing the issues with the EP-1 and MP201 he said:

    "Getting the MP201 to sweep the filter cut-off frequency would likely be as simple as cutting the wire(s) going to the TIP and SLEEVE of that jack and the DC control voltage should just feed directly into the CV mixer inside the photron.....That would not allow you to use a passive exp. pedal though, so if you want both options, I will need to work on it........."

    It has been unusable for me. Mario also said that when I get it back I'll be able to set the cutoff with the 'Freq' knob, but didn't mention whether or not it was an issue- though even if it is, I have a feeling the next photron made would have that functionality that mine does not currently. It's not quite as thick as the Moog, but it does sound good and I would like to use it as a highpass among other things, since it is combier than the Grinder. As an envelope filter, it is sounds somewhere between the Moog and Prometheus, but it is a little more subtle than both- It can get wild and go into self oscillation/pure resonance, but the envelope just isn't as fat and pronounced.

    I wouldn't recommend it to someone looking for a filter for strictly envelope filtering due to the subtlety and other options in the price range. BigO for instance, based on his other filter preferences, I do not think would like it, but probably great for guitar (or BigO's boneyard of highend effects AKA his guitarists board :D). But if there is just an issue and it all works out, then I would say it could definitely make a great end-all-filter for someone who would use it for an envelope filter, and as a filter for sweeps and stuff (ie synth filter)- It sounds great with the built in lfo going.

    Are the Frostwave Resonator and Funk A Duck both MS20 clones? I was under the impression that the FunkADuck was but didn't know much about the Resonator, other than it being highly sought after.
     
  17. rnilson

    rnilson

    Mar 8, 2008
    Kansas City, MO
  18. speak_onion

    speak_onion

    Jun 22, 2007
    Queens, NY
    Kev- what amp do you use? If you're looking for a last-the-chain filter for foot-sweeping, that screams Electrix Filter Queen, but the FQ really needs to run in an FX loop, it doesn't do too well with instrument-level signal. I know it's not a pedal, but it's definitely smaller than the moog.
     
  19. Nyarlathotep

    Nyarlathotep Banned

    Feb 5, 2006
    West Coast of Canada
    Any way of getting a list? I guess I've been focusing on gain so much that filters have never really been on my radar till now LOL

    EDIT: Just looking at the RF Meatwad again, and noticing the LP/BP/HP switch.......

    YOU PEOPLE ARE NOT HELPING MY GAS FOR THAT THING :( ;) :D :D :D :D
     
  20. RCCollins

    RCCollins Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2008
    San Diego, California
    yeah hold on let me throw a list together for you. it'll go quickly because i'll be using the search function :p
     

Share This Page