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more speakers, more ____?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by shortscale kid, Jun 4, 2018.


  1. shortscale kid

    shortscale kid

    Dec 9, 2017
    Austria
    hey there,

    if I'd run

    a 2x10 cab OR
    a 4x10 cab

    (at the same volume)

    would there be a noticable tonal difference, or a difference in presence
    in a band situation? Does the 4x10 make me hear myself better?
     
  2. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Yes. More speaker surface area (all other things equal) will increase your perceived volume a lot more than higher watts.

    There are tons if threads here where players will ask "What amp should I switch to to get me more volume from my 2-10 cab?"

    The answer is always "Get another identical 2-10 cab, not a new amp." :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
    shawshank72, ERIC31, Stumbo and 10 others like this.
  3. Stumbo

    Stumbo Wherever you go, there you are. Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 11, 2008
    the Cali Intergalctic Mind Space
    Song Surgeon slow downer software- full 4 hour demo
    And make a vertical in stack out of those two 2x10 cabs. Hear yourself better, better stage and FOH dispersion, and less stage volume needed.

    And, add an HPF to protect your speakers, overcome bad stage and venue acoustics, sit better in the mix and dial in a nice, tight bass tone.
     
  4. dbase

    dbase Gold Supporting Member

    Jan 3, 2008
    South Jersey, USA..
    IMG_0050.JPG
     
  5. A 410 beams tone in a narrow pattern. If you stand far enough away from it or you tilt it or raise it then it can be a very loud monitor but when you are using one to play to the room most of the room gets a mushy pillow sound.

    I am a 210 vertical stack believer!!

    Believe.
     
    mikewalker, mbelue and Lobster11 like this.
  6. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    This is the most complete answer.
     
    Loring, mbelue and Flippy like this.
  7. Guess it depends on the cab and also the speakers in it, as well as the manufacturer as most cabs are different. But yes in theory more speakers, more volume output. Conclusional TalkBass rule of thumb, always stack vertically two 2x10 cabs and also stay away from the 4x10+1x15 cab combo...:cool:
     
  8. basscooker

    basscooker Commercial User

    Apr 11, 2010
    cincy ky
    Owner, Chopshopamps.com
    I rarely recommend a square 410 unless you already have one and need to be louder, or you just need a jam spot cab and your budget is dismal.
     
  9. HaphAsSard

    HaphAsSard

    Dec 1, 2013
    Italia
    If with "same volume" you mean literally (both cabs fed each the appropriate signal to bring them to the same volume, with the 210 fed more watts of course), as opposed to "same volume knob position" (which most replies above focused on, for some reason, stating the correct but self-evident "4>2"), and all else being equal, the 410 would be the bassier sounding of the two because 1) it would disperse high-mids and highs worse than the 210 (in at least some listening positions) would, as mentioned by @Downunderwonder ,* and 2) it would have an upper bass/lower mid peak set lower in the response.**

    * [Because of a 4x10's square driver arrangement, there can be no off-axis positions where a listener is not at a different distance from two of the drivers: this determines upper mid and treble cancellation starting from a lower point than where (frequency-wise) the same phenomenon occurs for a listener standing above a horizontally placed 2x10 or standing on the side with the same 2x placed vertically. So no: a two-ten would actually let you hear yourself better than a four, at least in some positions, volume being equal.]
    ** [Bass frequencies are omnidirectional and wrap around the cabinet, even behind it, until - going up in frequency - they cannot: there's a transition point where wavelengths are too short for sound to climb over the baffle edge, and everything above that point is only directed to the front hemisphere relative to the cab. This means that, unless a notch in the response of the system happens to be there in the same area, the lowest slice of that "everything above" stuff is louder than what's immediately below, because it's directed to half the space. The larger the baffle, the larger the wavelengths need to be for sound to climb over, the lower the point; conversely, the smaller the baffle, the wider (in Hertzes) the omnidirectional, wraparound part of the response, and the higher the point where omnidirectionality ceases and a peak (in the earliest frequencies that cannot wrap around and are fired forward only, but more efficiently) occurs. Hence, 410-> lower peak, more low mids, more perceived woof; 210-> higher peak, less woof.]
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  10. beans-on-toast

    beans-on-toast Supporting Member

    Aug 7, 2008
    If you want to monitor better, elevate you cabinet closer to your ear level.
     
    mikewalker and Stumbo like this.
  11. sigterm

    sigterm ;) ;) ;), love y'all Supporting Member

    Feb 5, 2003
    Atlanta G of A
    How many 210's should I stack for metal?
     
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  12. Eleven. Duh.
     
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  13. edencab

    edencab

    Aug 14, 2013
    Toronto, On
    mo' speakers, mo' money
     
    interp, taught and equill like this.
  14. GroovyBassist

    GroovyBassist

    Mar 17, 2016
    Austin, TX
    Just curious why you would say "stay away from the 4x10+1x15 cab combo"?
     
    instrumentalist likes this.
  15. bearfoot

    bearfoot

    Jan 27, 2005
    schenectady, ny
    I believe what happens in many cases is, in that combination the 1x15 can get over-worked.
    But I do notice major bassists using that stack combo, I think it's just a question of individual parameters (it can work fine) vs convention (the warning about the 1x15).
    Or, maybe, the Vic Wooten's of the world just throw in a new 15" driver as needed.
     
  16. kurth83

    kurth83

    Mar 28, 2016
    I have never owned a 2x2x10 vertical stack, but I do a little bit of sound work these days, and have learned a little about line arrays.

    Line arrays change the dispersion characteristics of the sound in useful ways, and are the goto design for modern sound systems.

    In theory, compared to a square 4x10, a vertical array like will have better horizontal dispersion (left to right), but less vertical dispersion (up and down), so you get more sound focussed towards the audience, with wider coverage, and less sound aimed at the ceiling and the floor.

    I think the anecdotes expressed on TalkBass pretty much confirm the theory. :)
     
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  17. tedious1

    tedious1

    Feb 14, 2014
    I hated seeing my rack balanced on the column, I ended up going with an amp stand, a little more real-estate, a bunch more piece of mind... Particularly since I saw the picture of the singer hiding behind me on stage, right in front of my cabs... He's a little, flamboyant and energetic...

    All of them. But you only need to plug in two, one coupled to the floor, and one in the row above it, preferably the ones closest to the player.
     
  18. Meghans Dad

    Meghans Dad Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2016
    California
    where I live, a little 3.5 Richter scale will bring that right down!:eek:
     
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  19. Meghans Dad

    Meghans Dad Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2016
    California
    I don't think I ever overworked my 15" when coupled with my 4x10.
     
  20. Meghans Dad

    Meghans Dad Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2016
    California
    How it sounds to my ear when I stand next to it does not matter. How it sound 50 feet out does.
     
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