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musical ephiany

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by und, Nov 15, 2000.

  1. und


    Nov 15, 2000
    I had a musical epiphany on talkbass.com! I'm very new here (this is actually my first post) and I was reading through the forum's and read some comments by backtoschool and brendan. I just dawned on me that brendan's opinion of Korn is the epitomy of everything I don't want to be when it comes to music. I don't want to hate any music! A wave of respect for all kinds of music came over me. I may not like all kinds, I prefer the down tuned stuff and classic rock, but don't hate anymusic, I used to but something just clicked and said "no, that ain't the way it was supposed to be" hating music ain't the way to go", you gotta respect everyone who picks up an instrument (even if it's their voice) and respect what they do! I may not enjoy hearing country music, but I can respect it. I may not enjoy 80's hair bands, but I respect it. Music is a beautiful gift from God and no matter what it is, it's still music and still to be respected, not hated.

    [Edited by und on 11-16-2000 at 01:05 AM]
  2. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    welcome to the board, und

    i'm amazed that you know brendan well enough to make such a comment. have you ever met him? or heard him play? i've been here a while, and conversed with him a few times, and i don't think i could make such a statement, one way or the other.

    even poorly performed music? how bout music that is performed with no respect towards the listener, the instruments or the artform itself? how bout misogynistic or racist diatribes set to a drum machine?

    that's a noble sentiment, except when it is used to substitute for exercising one's "god" given ability to make a subjective decision about quality and desirability of a particular bit of music, or any other art for that matter.

    no i don't. in fact, if anybody is going to get any respect from me, they had better expect to earn it. i hold the musicians that i listen to to the same high standards that i hold myself to. otherwise i'd be a hypocrite.

    again, a noble sentiment, but any kind of blanket statement like "all music is good and worthy of respect" is bound to get you in trouble.

    and next time, try not to publicly single out a member of the board for negative comments. if you have a problem with somebody, take it to email. otherwise, keep the names out of it. if you disagree with brendan's view points, or anybody elses for that matter, mention the _viewpoint_ you disagree with and leave the name out of it.
  3. und


    Nov 15, 2000
    Sorry Mr. Turner for having a different opinion than yours. But what I said is what I said.

    "how bout misogynistic or racist diatribes set to a drum machine?"
    I don't agree with the racist message one bit but I don't hate the music itself, just the message. (example: I don't hate you for your diatribe post, just the post itself)

    "no i don't. in fact, if anybody is going to get any respect from me, they had better expect to earn it. i hold the musicians that i listen to to the same high standards that i hold myself to. otherwise i'd be a hypocrite."
    Are you saying that you don't have respect for beginners? I'm still a beginner at bass and I am not the greatest, but if I'm just having fun and play a little riff i made up in my head I'm proud of it. I can have respect for other people who are also beginners. This is an incredibly egotystical statement to say that you don't have respect for other musicians, just the ones that have the high honor of getting it from you.

    "again, a noble sentiment, but any kind of blanket statement like "all music is good and worthy of respect" is bound to get you in trouble."
    You must be quoting someone else, because i don't recall saying "all music is good and worthy of respect", I DO NOT appreciate being misquoted and then being ripped for it!

    Normally I wouldn't reply like this but it pissed me off someone would tear down every-single-one of my OPINIONS and STATEMENTS. I don't care if you have different opinions, Mr. Turner, but you could show me some respect.

    I would also like to apologize to Brendan, I was using his views he displayed as a specific example, but I do know I shouldn't have singled him out, that was wrong and I apologize.

    I'm completely turned off that expressing my opinions who cause me to get harassed. Does this happen every time some one post something? I just thought it would be an interesting experience to share with other music lovers! Had I known that someone would tear my experience to shreads, I would have never shared it. This will probally be the last time I ever go to this site, now that I know different opinions are not welcome.

    [Edited by und on 11-16-2000 at 12:15 AM]
  4. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member In Memoriam

    Now that would be hypocritical - as John's just said - you have to earn respect! ;)
  5. noise

    noise Guest

    Oct 23, 2000
    Berkeley, CA
    But, if voice is part of music, and the voice is transmitting a racist message, and you don't agree with the message, then how can you agree with the music as a whole?

    (I get into this debate with myself often, as I enjoy a few bands who have very questionable viewpoints but very interesting music... I think the answer lies in whether the questionable viewpoints are expressed in the music or not. But then there's that problem of sponsering such a group by buying their music to begin with.)

    Oh, and BTW, know the drum machine. Respect the drum machine. Love the drum machine. :D

    I think maybe you're confusing decency with respect.

    On the other hand, maybe JT is right about earning respect. Respect can be easily earned, by simply not doing something stupid, lame, or dangerous, and being generally intelligent. He was questioning your statements, giving you the opertunity to show your intelligence, and hence, earn respect. As it is, you got defensive instead.

    He wasn't quoting you. He was creating a example of a blanket statement similar to your original post. You spoke of all music needing respect. He simply mimicked your blanket statement to say that all music is GOOD and needing respect. Either one is a blanket statement and therefore subject to scrutiney (or however you spell it).

    If you'll note, he wasn't tearing down your statements and opinions, he was questioning you. Defend yourself intelligently and you'll get that respect you desire. Getting defensive doesn't do you any good; rather, it will do you harm.

    Further, you should note that he was posting as moderator, which means that when he was asking you not to pick out a single person, he was trying to keep the board clean and positive.

    There, that was easy and very respectable. ;)

    As I expressed above, you weren't harassed, you were questioned. You made some sweeping statements, and JT was calling your bluff. Or maybe you weren't bluffing. Either way, he was asking for a further explination.

    I find it somewhat ironic that you start off posting here by responding to a thread which ended up with people of different opinions having a casual, calm discussion, and end by getting mad when someone with a different opinion than yourself voices his. :rolleyes:

  6. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    oh brother :rolleyes:

    my original post served 2 purposes :

    1. as pertains to the comments about the fellow board member, i was offering a strong suggestion in my role as moderator for future reference, and to hopefully stop a potential flame war before it began. since i am not a moderator in this particular forum, only in "off topic" this was offered in as much a "suggestion" format as i could muster.

    2. as pertains to the comments about earning respect, i was offering my opinions on the topic as an individual that has spent the past 16 years pursuing excellence as a musician and bass player.

    i think in a way i am at fault in that my roles as moderator and list member perhaps didn't stay separated sufficiently, which may have been confusing. for that i apologize, i should've seperated them into 2 different posts for clarity.

    but then again, i wasn't attacking anybody, just countering opinions with those of my own.

  7. mikemulcahy


    Jun 13, 2000
    The Abyss
    Give up yet, you are clearly out matched.
  8. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    what exactly is lung butter?
  9. backtoschool


    Oct 24, 2000
    I could see how und could take it as a personal attack. und shared a personal experience of their "musical epiphany" and und's points were questioned (and und's points were personal convictions and being questioned on your personal convictions will cause a person to take it personally, especially if they are not used to the usual disagreements on opinions that take place in this miscellaneous forum). While someone posting is certainly in his or her right to question und's comments on Brendan and raise interesting points, I think it might have went to far with a first time post.
  10. the Qintar

    the Qintar

    Jul 24, 2000
    scared off another newbie, dont ever ask why they never post
  11. the Qintar

    the Qintar

    Jul 24, 2000
    i actually think that one things kind of funny, if you look up at mr. turners first response, he goes, "welcome to the board und", and then proceeds to rip the hell out of his post and absolutely bury it. what a great way to greet him on his first post, i mean jeez, maybe he didnt totally support every one of his statements, but it was the guys first post for cryn out loud. i dont blame if he never comes back, he was greeted with total negativity.
  12. This is a part of his first post. If you can dish it out, you'd better be prepared to take it.

    BTW, backtoschool, good points. And as a newbie yourself, be advised that you can delete your double post (and explanation ;)) all by yourself! :)

    Welcome to TB und! :)

    And yeah, what the heck IS lung butter? Is that some sort of medical term? ;)
  13. the Qintar

    the Qintar

    Jul 24, 2000
    youre going to say

    "if you can dish it out, youd better be prepared to take it"

    what does that have to do with what the original poster said. the person that the comment was directed at hasnt even posted in this thread, so because he made a comment about someone, then all these other people jump on him. he didnt even make a comment about the guy, he made a comment about the guys opinion being the ipitomy of what he didnt want to be, regarding music. the post that started this thread wasnt negative at all, in my opinion, but the immediate response was. thats a damn shame.
  14. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    I'd like to thank jt for his thoughtful and elegant response to und. I was just going to say, "No und, some music actually does suck."
  15. und


    Nov 15, 2000
    "what are you doing to earn any respect now? you're acting like a baby because i countered your viewpoints with ones of my own"

    That's great, a moderator calling peoples names. I can take the high road.

    If anyone has anything positive to post, that would be also be great. I guess I was hoping people would share their experiences with music and how it effected them, I didn't really think someone would even want to argue with mine.
  16. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member In Memoriam

    I think if you put up a controversial statement, then you have to firstly be prepared and to defend it and secondly expect that some (or maybe all) people will disagree.

    I also think that one of the most worrying tendencies that I perceive in "the "youth of today" (OK I'm Old! ;))is that they think they deserve respect, when they haven't actually done anything and have no notable talents or achievements. This - IMO - does not bode well for the future.

    It sounds to people of earlier generations like - I can do what I like, mess around, don't have to try very hard, but you still have to be nice to me. Well - life isn't like that and the people handing out jobs or gigs are probably going to be of the slightly older generation who expect you to prove yourself!
  17. Pacman

    Pacman Layin' Down Time Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 1, 2000
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
    Amen! brother, amen!!!
  18. DaveTomasi

    DaveTomasi Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Baltimore, Maryland

    If you truly seek an answer to this (I guess that you did since no smilies accompanied the question), I would speculate that the good Doc mikemulcahy is referring to a substance that one might produce when taking an expectorant.

    BTW, you are as eloquent as ever as demonstrated here. Keep up the good work. However, I wonder at times if your words are just browsed and not truly read before responses are returned.

  19. mikemulcahy


    Jun 13, 2000
    The Abyss
    Thanks Dave you are exactly correct, sorry JT I am a little slow in the response area lately.
  20. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    thanks. and yeah, you're probably right, i guess i need to type more slowly and with lots of :D smilies :D so :D i :D am :D not :D misunderstood :D. :rolleyes: .

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