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must 2nd and 1st press the string down when fingering with 4th

Discussion in 'Jazz Technique [DB]' started by altugbas, Aug 1, 2000.


  1. altugbas

    altugbas

    Jul 24, 2000
    When I finger a note with my 4th finger must my 2nd and 1st fingers also press the string down.Or can I use my fingers independently
    Note:i know that i should always use my 3rd and 4th fingers together.
     
  2. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by altugbas:
    When I finger a note with my 4th finger must my 2nd and 1st fingers also press the string down.Or can I use my fingers independently <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That's really bad technique and can lead to a lot of problems. The fingers don't have be "pressing", so to speak, but they should be down on the string against the fingerboard. I wrote a post about keeping the thumb down a while back, everything I wrote there applies here as well.
     
  3. altugbas

    altugbas

    Jul 24, 2000
    Well I could not find what you wrote actually.

     

  4. Sorry, it seems to have disappeared. In short, not
    keeping your fingers down can lead to a lot of ugly
    noises and inaccurate shifting which is the cause of
    poor intonation.
     
  5. Amoilbasso

    Amoilbasso

    Apr 22, 2000
    Florence
     

  6. I hope you mean relaxed, but in position, like David said.
     
  7. Amoilbasso

    Amoilbasso

    Apr 22, 2000
    Florence
    Hey Man,OF COURSE!!!!!
     
  8. Having other fingers down behind the fourth finger has benefits beyond strengthening the fourth finger as others on this site have alluded to.

    Part of basic string playing technique is to "solidify the note you're leaving" as you prepare to shift, wether up or down in pitch. Solidifying the fourth finger usually means that first or second finger should be in their corresponding positions especially if the note you're going to will be fingered with one of them (in fact, this should "always" be the case! 4 - 4 shifts are not as wise as any other combination, no matter how fast or slow the passage-work is).

    So, in a more concise answer, "YES," having fingers down behind the fourth finger is a very wise and strong habit to get into, even and especially if you use a fingering system that uses "all four" fingers; they should never really be 'independant', but be working together.
     
  9. TheBassPlayer

    TheBassPlayer

    Aug 22, 2000
    using your first, second, and third strings may be helpful if you are playing slow but my advise is to develope the strength in you hand to use each finger individually because if you use that technique when playing 16th, 32nd, or even 64th notes all your fingers will have a tendency to get in each other's way if you are moving up and down the neck very quickly.
     
  10. I riposte I would say that you will in fact be *more* accurate in fast passage work if you use other fingers to support third or fourth finger "fingering choices".

    With most peoples' physiology, you'll be even more accurate of you avoid third finger when the passage work is fast and involves shifts to different positions.

    I personally used to be very anti-Simandl, but I now recognize that, even with my large hands, Simandl positioning lends great strength to the hand and fingers when accuracy and swiftness is called for.

    My most influential teachers have all been advocates of "extended fingering patterns", but they all have also come back to the "solidifying of the hand" (see above) when shifting and accuracy are wanting. Personal experimentation and trial and error in teaching has agreed with this. FWIW

    [Edited by kpo on 08-23-2000 at 02:41 PM]
     
  11. What trips me up every time is a dotted 64th followed by a 128th. It always ends up sounding like a 128th triplet with the first 2 notes tied. Does that happen to you? Must be my silly Simandl technique.
     
  12. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member Administrator

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    dammit, he's over here too. somebody grab 'im by the legs. i'll club em with my BASS GUITAR, as in BG as in not DB, as in not DOUBLE BASS :rolleyes:

    you know, i see a DB thread hangin' around on the daily thread count for a few days, and i just know it - some BG guy got lost again. :D
     
  13. sic'em, Johnny!
     


  14. Hello everyone,

    Can we please make this a place of opinions, discussion and learning, not a place of one-line siliness that wastes a LOT of people's time and a LOT of Paul's space?

    Please?
     
  15. KPO, I realize that, taken out of context, the last couple posts might seem quite silly to you,but you seemed to overlook the source of our little tirade. Even though the last few posts seem frivolous, they are from experienced professionals (that's Don,Ed,and John)who have given valued advice in other threads. Which makes it an insult of sorts when some "Bassowner" tries to give ill-concieved advice on a subject that they obviously have no experience in, and posing as something they are not. This is irresponsible behavior and deserves to be ridiculed in a Public Forum, if only to give the poster (you know who you are), a well-intentioned reality check.(If you think this little tryst was bad,you should see the stuff that goes on in the Electric forum!)
    Realize also that most Bass players are not stuffy, pompous characters who only play 19th century classical music, and
    we enjoy a little tweaking once in a while.
     
  16. [/B][/QUOTE]
    """"KPO, I realize that, taken out of context, the last couple posts might seem quite silly to you,but you seemed to overlook the source of our little tirade. Even though the last few posts seem frivolous, they are from experienced professionals (that's Don,Ed,and John)who have given valued advice in other threads.""""

    ----And they made me very suprised to see that they'd do such a thing. If we're talking about cyber-professionalism, that kind of stuff *cheapens*.
    There's no need to defend them either; one can always read the profile and search for other posts by any Talkbass member...

    """"Which makes it an insult of sorts when some "Bassowner" tries to give ill-concieved advice on a subject that they obviously have no experience in, and posing as something they are not. This is irresponsible behavior and deserves to be ridiculed in a Public Forum...""""

    ----It would be much more effective to dispell any disinformation with contrary information and opinions, then perhaps follow up with a *private* email.
    Consider the many bass beginers, young and 'not young...' who might only be confused when poor advise is left hanging and only followed by some one-liners that are very much out of context and not in line at all with the thread!
    I in fact would not write this here if I didn't think it would help us all and keep us from being as wiley as the electric bass postings are. For all their candor, the EB section contributors generally have a LOT of chaff to sort through for anything worthwhile, and I value the way we usually help each other rather that toot about or babble...

    """"Realize also that most Bass players are not stuffy, pompous characters who only play 19th century classical music, and we enjoy a little tweaking once in a while.""""

    ----One may always tweak privately, and one can always check the "profile" to see who-plays-what-and-from-what-century so that one can see where they're coming from...

    [/B][/QUOTE]

    [Edited by kpo on 08-25-2000 at 11:43 PM]
     
  17. kpo: The post that triggered all this was preposterous, and was responded to with well-earned sarcasm. If you can't accept reedo's explanation, so be it. One person's mole hill is another's mountain.
    I'm not about to defend myself to you. However, I will point out that if you are concerned about "keeping us from being as wiley as the electric bass postings are", BG person John Turner is the best friend the DB side ever had. You would know that if you'd "search for other posts by any Talkbass member."
    If an identical situation comes up again, I hope everyone remains in character. If we're truly that bad, Paul can easily kick us out.
     
  18. miles

    miles

    Aug 25, 2000
    If y'all are curious to see what Paul thinks aboot your getting out of hand, check out what he had to say about the BG bunch in "about Off Topic" and if this is about "Off Topic", consider what y'all look like yappin' nonsense like this in a "technique" thread!
    ___________________________________________________________
    ___________________________________________________________

    From Paul:
    The Off Topic forum at TalkBass is a place for bassists to hang out and chat about non-bass related material.
    However, because this is a public forum, and because TalkBass strives to maintain a certain level of dignity and civility, there are a few ground rules that will be strictly enforced by the moderators.

    The #1 rule has got to be respect. If you do not agree with a fellow member, be courteous in your response. If you do not address everyone on the board with respect, be prepared to lose your membership.
    Because this forum is viewed by bassists of all ages, all posts must be suitable for viewing by kids, some of whom are under 14 years old. If what you have to say wouldn't be suited for network TV, don't post it here. Controversial topics started for the purpose of creating "mega threads" will be VERY closely moderated (ie, discussions on religion). These kind of threads tend to only inflame people's emotions, creating enemies out of friends.
    If you have a disagreement with a moderator (If your thread gets deleted, if you get a warning, etc.), DO NOT take it out on the moderator. Do not even think about publicly complaining about a moderators actions. If you have a problem with a moderator's decisions, email the administration at admin@talkbass.com.
    Please use courtesy when using the E-Mail, ICQ, or IM functions of the board. Any complaints of members abusing these messaging functions will result in membership termination.
     
  19. You're a little late, Smiles. Already read it,understood it,
    and agreed with it,but you must have missed the melee' that sparked it,and it wasn't on the DB side.
     
  20. miles

    miles

    Aug 25, 2000
    That was the whole point, that it wasnt' even in a serious thread - and look how your treatin' a potentially serious thread!