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My 4X10 can't compete with two guitarists 4X12s...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Blacksheep, Aug 3, 2007.


  1. Blacksheep

    Blacksheep Destroyobot

    Sep 7, 2006
    Manitoba, Canada
    So what should I do? I am already running it at 500 watts, compared to the guitarists 100s. But their guitars ability to cut through leaves me far behind. What is the main factor in getting big volume?
     
  2. nysbob

    nysbob

    Sep 14, 2003
    Cincinnati OH
    Moving air requires driver area. Add a cab.

    And tell them to TTFD !
     
  3. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001

    Jun 17, 2004
    Ireland
    First off a little smack around the back of the guitarist head might help. Most of them could probably use one.

    Get him to roll off some of the low end a bit. Boost your mids you don't want too much low end either. A lot of low is a real drain on your amps resources. My amp has a few bands of semi parametric. I swing it to 32 Hz and kill that frequency almost completely. Most bass cabs can't handle that sor of low end anyway and frees up some headroom for me. The main thing would be to keep up with the volume of your drummer. If the guitarist is over powering him as well he's way too loud.

    A lot of low end from multiple sources can really muddy up the sound. It can make things hard to distinguish more so for the bass than guitar which naturally had a strong mid presence anyway

    You could add another cabinet for more volume. Or have a look round for a cab thats more efficient.

    guitar cabs are very directional. Stand off axis to his. Get out of his line of fire so to speak. Also try raising your cab nearer to your head.

    More wattage probably won't do much for volume, but would provide head room to allow you to be loud and clear at the same time. Rather than driving the balls off the amp (and speakers) you have at the moment.
     
  4. SteveC

    SteveC Moderator Staff Member

    Nov 12, 2004
    North Dakota
    You have plenty of cab for any gig - PA supported or not. Tell your idit guiarist's to turn down.
     
  5. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001

    Jun 17, 2004
    Ireland
    There's no such thing as enough of anything when it comes to bass :D
     
  6. jtc_hunter

    jtc_hunter

    Feb 16, 2007
    +1 here!.. They have to turn down. If they wont do whats best for the band "as a whole", then find another band. Louder is not better.
     
  7. That, along with the GAS theory... Make no senze at all.. but oh they are beautiful
     
  8. neatobassman

    neatobassman

    Jul 16, 2005
    Antelope CA
    Word.

    The question is, do you WANT to get a new cab. If not, just keep telling the guitars to turn down and work with all the EQing tips stated earlier.
     
  9. superqwertyboy

    superqwertyboy

    Mar 14, 2007
    new york
    So true :)

    Try turning your post all the way up and use the "pre" as your main volume control, run flat and change your strings
     
  10. neatobassman

    neatobassman

    Jul 16, 2005
    Antelope CA
    I wouldn't suggest doing that. If you don't start clipping as soon as you start playing, you'll get a real overly produced sound at low volumes and when you turn up, you'll start clipping.
     
  11. Kaxx

    Kaxx

    Apr 1, 2007
    Columbia, MO 65201
    Proper EQing and cabinet height is everything. I've currently in the last couple of weeks been using a completely flat EQ setting on my bass and amplifier in my rock band with a guitarist that uses a half stack Marshall. I have 210 and 115 ampeg cabs, and with my current EQ 500 watts is way more than enough.

    Edit: Room acoustics are also an important factor, as is placement of all of the amps.
     
  12. savit260

    savit260

    Mar 6, 2006
    Boston
    How about getting your guitar players to ditch the 100Watters, in favor of 50 watters? With modern P.A. equipment, there really is no need for 100 Watt guitar amps these days. The 50 sound better cranked (genrealy speaking, and particularly Marshalls) than 100 watters anyhow. That'll bring the volume down about 10% and you should be fine. I'm sure that the venues you play it will appreciate it even more than you do.

    I don't know how you eq, but boosting the mids will help too. Five hundred watts should be more than enough to keep up with a 100 watt guitar amp.


    That said I used to be able to keep up fine with my guitarist old 100 Watt Marshall, with my Sunn 2000s ( 160watts) and a single 15, with a LOUD drummer.
     
  13. joelb79

    joelb79

    Mar 22, 2006
    Lansing, Michigan
    Go with an 810 or two. Run a much bigger amp. You can pick up Carvin 810's on the cheap I think. Two for the price of an Ampeg 810.
     
  14. lug

    lug

    Feb 11, 2005
    League City, Tx
    Turn your lowest EQ all the way down, highest all the way up, and mids in the middle. Run through the most distortion you can, possible one distortion pedal into a second one. Now tell the gui****ists that that's how you will continue to play until they decide that turning down a bit may be a good idea for the WHOLE band.
     
  15. NKUSigEp

    NKUSigEp

    Jun 6, 2006
    Bright, IN
    Buy amps that go to "11"!!!! LOL

    Nah - you get volume from the size/number/efficiency of your speakers. Watts are just a measure of how much work your amp will do on your speakers. If you keep fighting with guitarists for volume, get one of these:

    [​IMG]



    Notice the heavenly, glowing aura it produces! LOL
     
  16. quadrogong

    quadrogong

    Jul 6, 2006
    NYC
    it's easy to get another cab..and get a monsterous rig.
    but the real challenge is making that 4x10 work...!

    If you have a crappy 4x10,maybe very old speakers that are falling apart,and not performing at 100%,or just a cheap one that handles little power..then sell it,upgrade it..
    to something great,a used 700-1,000 watt rated cab,something new,and popular,with good reviews.

    if you can't make a 4x10 work at rehearsal, then most likely the guitar players go by the,"it has to be super loud to have bawls" mantra,
    and you have to approach them carefully,get them to turn down.

    You need to be just loud enough to get a good lock with the kick drum,

    and to create a nice,even flow of low end with the drummer.

    don't try to keep up with insanely loud guitar players,
    if they won't turn down.. Stand right next to your speaker,to make the mix more balanced,
    and stay at appropriate levels.
    eventually,they may get the picture that they are too loud in the mix.
    and if they don't..they just lack musicianship.
     
  17. Rickenbackerman

    Rickenbackerman

    Apr 17, 2001
    Laurel MD

    or one of these:

    svts2.
     
  18. NKUSigEp

    NKUSigEp

    Jun 6, 2006
    Bright, IN
    Why ya gotta bust my balls like that? :crying: LOL
     
  19. I don't envy you. Your guitarists have a total lack of common sense and decorum. No one wins in a "Battle of the Amps" situation you have described.

    Yeah.. do check out their EQ.. get them to completely 'butt out' of YOUR frequency range if that is the case.. That right there will help you cut thru better. And also do free up some head room for yourself by 'deep sixing' that real low stuff and boosting the mids a bit more.
     
  20. I think I just got GAS lol

    Dude, I don't know what head you are using at 500 watts, I recommend an all tube head -Ampeg, Sadowsky, Mesa. SOlid State or Simul-State a GK head 1001 or 2001, a Mesa BB750 and above.

    Sell your 410 for an 810 OR ADD a 115, or 210, or 212's!

    410 alone is not enough
     

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