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My Carvin RL210 cab passes big test

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by cb56, Feb 2, 2001.


  1. cb56

    cb56

    Jul 2, 2000
    Central Illinois
    Maybe this should be in the weird gig stories thread but here goes. Last night my band opened for David Allan Coe at a local club. Large room for a club, but small stage. After hearing from the club owner that we weren't supposed to touch anything, bring in your own drums etc. I rolled my Ampeg stack in. Before I got a chance to set it up the soundman comes running up to me, "Hey it's ok to use their bass rig if you want, it'll be a lot less hassle between bands that way". I looked at their bass player's Peavey rig and said "well ok". So I rolled all my stuff back outside.
    I got my bass out, unplugged the guitar cable from his bass plugged it into mine, turned his amp on, SLOWLY turned the input up to about 1 and... BBBRRAAAACKK, SPLAT, CRUNCH, BUZZZZZ!!! So I quickly turned his amp off not wanting to be responsible for blowing speakers. I really didn't want to haul all my ampeg stuff back in because it was freeekin' cold outside, so I grabbed my 350watt Ampeg head out of the truck and my Carvin 210 cab(the one that tilts back like a monitor). This will have to do, I'll either get by with it or blow it up, let's see what this puppy is made of.Gotta tell you, IT KICKED ASS! I was amazed 350 watts into 2 10'S output cranked up to about 8. plenty of low end. Now of course I would rather have my 410 and 18 cabs but I must say I'm glad I have that Carvin 210.
     
  2. Luis Fabara

    Luis Fabara

    Aug 13, 2000
    Ecuador (South America)
    Audio Pro - Ecuador
    Great!!
    I want to ask you something.
    What Ampegs cabs do you have??
    I am planning to order an SVT410HE , SVT-15E,SVP-PRO preamp and a CARVIn DCM1000 power amp.
    But i was thinking of a second option... a Carvin RL1018 Stack.
    What are your impresions?
     
  3. cb56

    cb56

    Jul 2, 2000
    Central Illinois
    I'm using the SVT 410 he and SVT18e. My amp is 350watts into 4 ohms so that's only 175 watts into each cab. plenty loud for most gigs. sounds like you would have a great setup with the ampeg cabs. If I was going with the Carvin power amp I would be tempted to put one of Carvins 4 ohm 1-18 cabs under the Ampeg 410. Just a thought.
     
  4. Oysterman

    Oysterman

    Mar 30, 2000
    Sweden
    If the Peavey rig was so goofy, what did Coe's bass player use then?
     
  5. rickbass

    rickbass Supporting Member

    Since Carvins are my "bread n' butter" amps, I'm biased but I'll say it anyway- you ought to try the Carvin 600 watt head that is usually teamed with their 2x10"s...WANG DANG DOODLE!!!

    [Edited by rickbass1 on 02-02-2001 at 12:18 PM]
     
  6. cb56

    cb56

    Jul 2, 2000
    Central Illinois
    Hi Oyster,
    He used the Peavey rig. He never was around while I was trying to figure it out so I don't know what he did different, But you would think using the same guitar cable, turning on the amp and barely turning up the input gain would be something pretty straight forward to do. I didn't change anything, I was even going to use his EQ settings.

    Hi Rick,
    The Carvin Bass amps do seem interesting, I heard someone use that setup last summer and thought it sounded great. I really love my Ampeg's tone though, I'm pretty hooked on Ampeg for that reason. But I am kind of thinking about the time when I can't carry all that stuff to a gig anymore and am wondering if one of the Carvin Combos might be the way to go for an old fart that can't lift a 410 cab 3 feet in the air. Small and LOUD.
     
  7. bassmonkeee

    bassmonkeee Supporting Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    Decatur, GA
    I've got the Combo version of the RL210. I love it. I use it pretty much flat and set my tone with the bass. It is nice to have the graphic and parametric eq's, though. I have used it for blues, jazz, rock, and R&B, and it always sounds great. And, while it isn't exactly light, it is very portable. If anyone is looking for a LOUD combo for a great price, try them out. I love mine. I had sold my SWR rig to a friend when I got my Carvin. The SWR sounded great, but it was a pain in the a$$ to move around. He tried my Carvin, and now he has sold the SWR rig on Ebay, and got a RC210 used for $600. So, there you go.
     
  8. Luis Fabara

    Luis Fabara

    Aug 13, 2000
    Ecuador (South America)
    Audio Pro - Ecuador
    In what consisted that SWR rig.
    Im really scared right now.
    Having to decide between amps without having the opportunity to compare it with my rig is an ugly feeling.
    I know an Ampeg Full stack is gonna sound better than my 60Hz-18KHz SVT410He and Hartke 2000 (Pounding only 120 watts due to Impedance) , but still.. im gonna spend a lot of money.

    I dont know what to do right now...
    I was looking at Davin Eden specs and they seem flatter (-2db) than Ampeg but with a shorter range (maybe truer specs)

    I really dont know what to do right now..
    Ampeg SVT410HE + SVT115E + SVP-PRO + Carvin DCM1000 ... or WHAT???
    In the same price league of course.
    I had limited my options to Ampeg and Carvin because I have dealer prices on those... but I thing I can make an effort and contact any other company so I can get dealer prices on those too.

    HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPP ME MAKE MY MIIIINDDDDD!!!
     
  9. rllefebv

    rllefebv

    Oct 17, 2000
    Newberg, Oregon
    I too have an RC210 combo that I sometimes run bi-amped with a homemade 15" cab. The RC210 sounds great by itself, and lately my lazy ass has been using it as a stand-alone. Plenty of headroom in a rock cover band with two obnoxious guitarists and a LOUD drummer. Of course I'll stack it when I want to look impressive, sometimes letting one of the guitarists run the bottom cabinet...I dunno, it just looks so cool when it's stacked!

    -robert
     
  10. cb56

    cb56

    Jul 2, 2000
    Central Illinois
    I just have the 210 speaker cab. Do you guys run the amp bridged into the 210's at 600 watts?
     
  11. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    I don't recommend it. I have the RC210 combo and one of my 10" drivers developed a noise (probably scuffing coil) after I ran one side of my R1000 head into it with some amount of sporadic clipping. That's over 300 clean watts - plus the clipping signal byproducts. If you make sure to run really clean (i.e., keep far, far away from ever seeing a clipping light even hint at blinking), you might be okay with it.

    To rllefebv, wow - I have one guitarist with a 50-watt tube amp and a drummer (admittedly loud at times), and my full Carvin stack (R1000, 2x10, 1x18) sometimes can't quite keep up volume-wise. Well, maybe you never play any notes below the D string! ;) Mystery to me how you can be heard over all that.

    - Mike
     
  12. Brooks

    Brooks

    Apr 4, 2000
    Middle East
    Mikey, my guitarist has an all-valve Marshall 50W. My RL1000 with 4x10 and 18 blows him away (literally) with volume set at 4. That rig makes for one great Guitarist Volume Control
     
  13. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    Been there! Used to be all we had was a local music store or somebody privately selling stuff to check out. But now we have all these options and internet to get info, so given the huge array of choices, decision-making is harder. But ultimately you wind up with a better system if you make a good choice.

    Well, only you can make up your mind, but trying to at least find others who have similar situations and needs (types of music, style of playing, sound quality, venue sizes, strength of back, wallet size, etc., etc. - get my drift?) - it can help you see a pattern.

    For me - I play a variety of stuff from straight-ahead traditional jazz to fusion to old soul music to shake-your-rump-to-the-funk to Hendrix-inspired rock blasts to R&B. I need a system that can do all these things for me. The hardest part now is generating the volume I need at the lowest frequencies and cleanly amplifying the transients caused by slapping (see my other post in this thread). I'm finding the biggest challenge is in getting the funk sound I want. Some of this funk absolutely requires in-your-face bass. I need 10s to get the punchy upper midrange and slap sounds, and I need something to rumble the lithosphere (umm - earth's crust, I mean) when needed. So... I think I have enough *wattage* to accomplish this, and the Carvin heads have been pretty good so far (though you might read other comments by me about their power ratings). The problem I'm having mostly is that, despite the power I'm feeding to them, the speakers just aren't quite cutting it. So... I am in the process of upgrading. I wish Carvin had a premium series of bass speaker. I'm sure they are capable of making such a series. It would be cool for them to have their regular line (as they do now) for people on a budget, and have another series that would be for more demanding performance requirements (better low-end response and much greater efficiency). At this time - for my application - I am planning on a 2x15" cabinet to replace my 1x18, and I may also add a 4x10" to the rig. I don't mind hauling the stuff around if it gives me the sound I'm after.

    Relative to your comment about specs, it's hard to tell because manufacturers don't seem to have a uniform way to measure the response (as you noted). I have found discrepancies in Ampeg's catalog and web site regarding their specs; and I have seen some Eden frequency response figures which seem very doubtful to me (e.g. two different speakers with two very different -2dB points, yet the same -6dB point).

    If your situation has any parallels to mine, you could take these comments into consideration in your decision. I suspect you'll do all right with any of the choices you mentioned, but certain brands/models may perform better for you (but may be much more costly and/or heavy). You have to consider all these things if you want to make the best decision. On the other hand, life goes on if you find that you might have done better - you learn that way! :)

    - Mike
     
  14. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    Yeah - I'd say I'm not really having trouble with the guitar amp - it's my drummer sometimes. Hard to get the bass note clear when he's really pounding heavily. BTW, when you say "literally", you are being literal. I'd like to see that - a bass amp actually having the same effect on a drummer that a jet engine under full throttle with nozzle pointed at him might have. Of course, given Fig Newton's Second Law, you must have your amp braced against an immovable object, such as a wall. Hmmm. (Sorry to be pedantic, but... I think a better word would be "figuratively"!) :)

    (It's getting late - I better get to bed before I upset somebody!)
    - Mike
     
  15. rllefebv

    rllefebv

    Oct 17, 2000
    Newberg, Oregon
    Don't know what to tell you Mikey, 'cept dem's da facts! I am a huge proponent of keeping things quiet on the stage and trying to sound good out front rather than just playing loud, however, these other guys don't feel the same way. That being said, I am completely confident that I can be the loudest thing on the stage if I need to be.

    When I run the combo alone, I do run bridged mono. That's 600W into a 400W 4 Ohm cabinet. I have always found that it's preferable to run more power than the cabinet is rated at. That way, you can avoid having to push the head into clipping to be heard. I have blown cabinets rated at 400W with a 150W head, (quite a few actually before I figured that it was the clipping that was killing them!)...

    On my Carvin, I dime the knobs on my P-Bass, then pluck really hard while adjusting the input on the amp so that it just begins to clip. I then back off slightly on the P's volume control, knowing that I can now smack the piss outta the bass and not overload the input, (Which is where the clipping will occur). Now I can adjust the master volume to stage level without any worries. Trying to drive a cabinet with an under-powered head is nothing but trouble...BTW, I have also run this bi-amped with a 2X15 cabinet, (4 Ohm load), like you were mentioning, and wow...All I can say is you gotta try it!


    -robert
     
  16. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    Robert (rllefebv),
    Thanks for your comments. Robert is easier to pronounce than rllefebv! I have not given the RC210 a serious trial with my band running the R600 bridged into it. Might be worth a test. I'm a little cautious about overdriving the speakers, though. I boost the bass quite a bit, and those little 10s have a tough time with it.

    I totally agree with your comment about making it sound good, rather than loud. If people want loud, there are a million ways to do that and not use any musicians! I strive for a musical balance. I have a lot experience playing saxophone with jazz and classical ensembles, so it's been a good education relative to knowing how to get all the voices to sound good together. Once you get the balance right, a sound guy can just pick any master gain level suitable to the situation.

    Sounds like that 400 watt cabinet of yours was overrated - or the amp was underrated. A fully clipped signal from a 150-watt RMS amp should put out no more than 300 watts. However, if you were blowing tweeters, that is "normal" in this situation.

    I need to comment on the word "underpowered". Underpowered can have two meanings, IMO: (1) the continuous RMS output of the amp is less than the continuous rating of the speaker, and (2) the amp, at its maximum output, still can't give you enough volume or headroom with the speakers you're using. I think the second one is the one that causes the problems - we try to squeeze more out of it, but all it will do is clip and this *can* (note: not necessarily *will*) cause damage to speakers. The first one isn't a problem as long as the amp/speaker combination gives enough volume and headroom without going into clipping. Just my 2.00000 cents.

    Relative to the 2x15, once I get my rig set up so it gives me a mile-wide smile, then I may post a little "report" here about it.

    - Mike

     
  17. This procedure is generally just good common sense and shows an understanding of your gain structure- I say this for the benefit of whomever may have less experience in this realm, not to congradulate our man Robert here :D.

    Clipping your power section (by trying to get more out of it than it 'wants' to give you) is to be avoided. A percieved excess of clean, non-clipping power is a safer bet than pushing a low-power amp. And there's the dope on that.

    You would do well to err on the side of caution by just going ahead and assuming that you will blow your speakers by clipping your amp's output stage.

    I realize there is some debate once in a while on this, don't know why though. :smug: Anyhow, I'm picking up an RL 210 next week for the rehearsal space, and looking forward to ginving 'er a good thump! Then I can have both my little Baggie 15s back safe at home. :hyper: