My Extended Essay thread

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by Sheep Man, May 27, 2001.

  1. Ok. This is where I'm gonna post any and all questions related to my EE now. My teachers said we shouldn't be doing stuff related to our EE now, since our exams are starting this coming Thursday, but I'm gonna need resources for EE week after the exams, so I might as well start with resource gathering right now. :D

    Well, I know I've got and the Jaco book, and about a kazillion other resources for Jaco. That shouldn't be too hard for me. My biggest problem right now is Stanley Clarke. I haven't been able to find all that much on Stanley Clarke.

    Are there any books that I could/should get that are solely, or mostly on Stanley Clarke? My EE is on comparing the styles & techniques of Jaco & Stanley, but with that I'd have to go into background information etc. to find their roots in music et al to see how it's influenced them now (or how it influenced them later in life...) and stuff like that.

    Also, if you could PM or e-mail me if you wanna be interviewed by me or something (I haven't quite got this part down yet. Too busy studying. :p) about your opinions on Jaco and/or Stanley Clarke. Preferably if you've been influenced by them, because then I could also get an idea of how their playing has rubbed off onto you. :D

    Thanks in advance, guys. ;)
  2. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member Administrator

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    you're in a region where "book knowledge" isn't going to be as worthwhile as listening to the music.

    i don't know if you can do this or not, but i would take 3 albums of jaco, say "heavy weather" with weather report, "jaco pastorius" and "heijira" by joni mitchell, for instance, and 3 albums with stan, like "school days" by stanley clarke, "romantic warrior" by return to forever, and maybe arethra franklin's "let me in your life" and take them each apart, song by song, with a critique of the playing on each, and then jaco or stanley's styles and approach.

    then sum it up with an analysis of each player's styles and approaches in similar situations.

    other than that, there isn't that much written about these guys yet - websites aren't going to be subject to the same critical and editorial scrutiny that a book would be, so almost anything you find on the web is going to be somewhat suspect at best, i would think.
  3. Thanks!

    The main reason for the books and/or websites, though, is for background info on them, though. It'd be nice for even just a paragraph on Stanley Clarke's upbringing.
    For Jaco, I've basically got the first section of the Jaco book, and it also goes into his time with the C. C. Riders, which is useful for his evolving as a bassist etc. I haven't been able to find much info like that on Stanley Clarke, though.

    While I'm pretty sure I could spend all 4000 words picking apart their techniques & stuff, I personally feel (at this point in time, at least) that if I could give a little bit of background info on them, maybe just a paragraph each, of how they were brought up, what kind of musical environment they grew up in, and how they started off on bass (and in SC's case shifted from upright to electric. :D).

    Oh yeah, and thanks for the recordings. I've got a few of their solo albums, but haven't got anything with them in other situations other than Weather Report's Heavy Weather and The Clarke/Duke Project, if that counts. :D
  4. Is this still the SAME EE?? wasn't it due a while back you lazy git? here u are on ICQ saying "oh i'm doing nothing".. get to work boy!

    Yes mum... :p


  5. It's not due til the end of the first term next year. Most of the work's meant to be done over summer, anyway. Of course, it's good to get an outline & stuff done first, but that's what EE week is for. The last week of school, when all the other kids are already on holiday, we gotta keep goin' to school to meet with our EE supervisors & stuff.

    So when I say I'm "doing nothing" on ICQ, I really am. I've already gotten a lot of my research material (mostly CDs... :D:D) as well as the Jaco book, which I'm reading during my free periods now. :)

    But like I said before, if I could find a book or something that would give me some background info on Stanly Clarke...would like...a Bass Player magazine interview suffice? Or would it be a better idea to...uuuuh...I dunno, try & contact Stanley Clarke himself?
  6. Whew! Exams are finally over!
    Now on to my EE again...

    I know JT gave me some suggestions for albums to use when picking apart Jaco & Stanley Clarke's playing, but does anyone else have any other albums they'd recommend? Perhaps more along the lines of them being hired help for a singer or something. I can probably find plenty of stuff for solo CDs, and then there's Weather Report & Return To Forever...
    actually, I should probably get some of Jaco's stuff with the C. C. Riders, huh?

    Man...I'm gonna spend so much money on CDs for this EE...I wonder how much of it I could get my mom to pay for? :p
  7. Oh yes, something else I thought might come in handy for anyone who wants to give me info, as well as a bit of background info on the EE component of IB for anyone who's interested. The whole thing is kinda long, so I'll just list the assessment criteria and what's required to get top marks.
    Oh yeah, and these are directly quoted from the IB EE assessment criteria booklet that the teachers have. We're all meant to get a copy of the subject we're doing, which is what I'm copying this off of. :p

    Choice of music and method of study
    The candidate has chosen music for study which involves extensive contact with music and musicians via recordings, or live performances and concerts, or personal contact with composers or performers, or fieldwork in a culture other than the candidate's own.

    Use of appropriate primary and secondary resources
    The candidate uses both secondary (textbooks and the comments of other musicians) and primary resources (scores, recordings, performances, interviews) with great skill, and the interpretation of these materials illustrates and justifies a personal point of view with sophistication and skill.

    Description and analysis of the technical aspects of music in terms of melody, harmony, rhythm, texture, tone colour, and lyrics or text as appropriate
    The candidate has described, analysed and evaluated the technical aspects of the music chose, with sophistication and skill; the techniques used show an outstanding knowledge of the music chosen for study.

    Historical, social and cultural context
    The music chosen for study is directly and clearly placed in its historical, social or cultural context with a sophisticated sicussion of the music in its appropriate environment. These issues have been carefully, critically and systematically analysed, and most of the relevant links have been thoroughly explored.

    With that in mind, I'd probably have to find a way to contact Stanley Clarke in person or on the phone or in some way directly to get the absolutely best marks I can, huh?
  8. Okay...extended essay week is almost upon me, and I have to hand in a 1000 word outline by the end of EE week.

    So, to kick it off, I'd like to ask everyone this:
    What, to you, does groove mean?
    According to the Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, tenth edition, the groove I'm talking about is best explained as:
    top form
    a pronounced enjoyable rhythm
    But I don't think either of those, even when added together, even come close to the kind of groove that both Jaco and Stanley Clarke have. Or...had, in Jaco's case.

    To me, a groove is alive, like the friend that gets you up off your butt and on the dance floor. It is, indeed, a pronounced and enjoyable rhythm, but that's not all. It flows, it mingles with the masses and is a live feel-good factor.
    One better example of groove that I'm listening to right now , IMO (which, sadly, is neither Jaco nor Stanley Clarke, but still damn groovy! :D), is Madonna Lee on the Bass Extremes: Victor Wooten/Steve Bailey; A Cookbook CD.
    But then again, besides just the title of the song, the song has an easily identifiable Jaco-esque style to it. A Jaco-esque groove, a Jaco-esque feel to it.
    So basically, to me, groove is the thing, the feeling and the friend that lifts you up emotionally and/or physically.

    So, enough about my thoughts...what about you guys? I'm sure I'd need definitions of groove if I want to define any of Jaco and Stanley Clarke's songs. :)
  9. Sundogue


    Apr 26, 2001
    Wausau, WI
    I have no idea what issue...but there was an issue of Guitar Player Magazine (before Bass Player, when they still did stories and interviews on bass players) that had an excellent story/interview with Stanley Clarke and he told alot about his upbringing and early years playing.

    You may want to check out their site and look through the archives and find that issue.

    As far as "groove" goes. Think of the word itself. It's where the whole song lies. It's in there and it flows wherever that groove takes you. So, to me the groove in music is wherever that song wants to take you...which is why some songs take you places you've never been before...and others take you nowhere.
  10. Hey, thanks for the Guitar Player info...
    And, now that I'm feeling very wide awake at 12:30am having just slept for 6 hours, I think I'll begin searching for it. :)
  11. Whew!
    OK, EE week started today, and now I'm busy looking for stuff.
    And merls, if you have any doubts, just ask Chris A. I was talking to him on ICQ about it about 30 or 40 minutes ago. :p

    Anyway, I've got the Bass Heroes, Bass Player Book and Milkowski's jaco book so far, but I'm mostly taking notes on Stanley Clarke, first. As for that Guitar Player article...I didn't see any issues of Guitar Player over at that had articles on Stanley Clarke, but the Bass Heroes book is a bunch of articles & interviews from the pages of Guitar Player magazine, so with any luck what I'm looking for will be in there.

    Also, I'd like to ask another question...
    My research question is (approximately) How do the styles of bassists Stanley Clarke and Jaco Pastorius differ? and I'm wondering if putting information on who THEY have influenced would be relevant. I'm definitely going to put in information on who influenced THEM, but am not too sure about putting in information about who they've influenced. Would talking about how Les Claypool seeing Stanley Clarke slap his bass live and thus causeing Les to begin slapping his bass be relevant?
    What about how the songs and/or riffs that Jaco & Stanley have written have influenced other songwriters? Would that information be relvant as well?

    The reason I come here is because there's only so much help that my EE supervisor can give me. He, unfortunately, doesn't know too much about jazz or bass, so I can't get very much specific help form him. I've been largely on my own on this, mostly going to ask him if he has any suggestions for ideas I've come up with etc.

    Thanks again,
    Sheepy :D:p
  12. Cornbread


    Jun 20, 2000
    Lawrence, Ma
    Isn't working on your own the whole point of the essay? I think you're on the right track; you just have to go out and do the research. Once you start writing everything should flow right along. I should know - I had the same problem writing my term paper which was a requirement for graduation(BTW the topic was "there should be less computer use in schools" and I got a B because I handed it in about a week late).
  13. Uuuh...
    Ok. Now for the fine-tuning of my essay...

    I know Stanley Clarke is of African American decent, but what about Jaco? If it's in any of the resources I have, then I must be blind... :oops:

    Also, did either of 'em use any effects? Or did they always go for the clean bass sound? Or did they not even have any bass effects back then?

    Sorry if this sounds kinda...out of it, but I've got tons of other stuff on my mind right now, and I'm having to force myself to sit down & put the finishing touches in this...close-to final draft of my essay. :p
  14. Bass Guitar

    Bass Guitar Supporting Member

    Aug 13, 2001
    Jaco's mother Stephanie Haapala was of Swedish and Finnish descent, and his father Jack Pastorius was of German and Irish descent.

    [from Jaco's biography by Bill Milkowski - I assume you have this book already.]

    Both Jaco and Stanley did use effects once in a while. You should be able to figure out which ones from the CDs you have of each. Bass effects were definitely available then. I know that Jaco used distortion for some of his solos.

    In the end, no matter what you write in your essay, I am sure that the person who marks it would be probably unfamiliar with bass jazz heroes anyway, so you should be safe as long as you are not too inaccurate.
  15. Really? Dang, how come I don't remember reading that?

    Hmmm...key word being should... :p
    Well, then again...I guess effects don't really have TOO much to do with technique, if anything at all, right? But are used for style...? Hmmm...
    I dunno how relevant it this point in time, anyway. I have a couple days to think it through, and it shouldn't be too hard to put it in there if I decide it is. :)
  16. Ok, now I have another problem...

    I have too many songs to talk about, and if I were to compress them all into the required 4000 words, then I wouldn't be able to go through them all in as much detail as I need to get a good grade for this essay.

    So if you guys could help me out here, I'd like you guys' opinions on which songs showcase Jaco & Stanley Clarke's abilities to the fullest.

    For example, if you think School Days shows both Stanley's rock and jazz influences the best, just a simple explanation, like the opening root-fifth riff shows the rock influences, and the rest of the song shows the jazz influences, because I've got stuff written down for it already. :p
  17. Ok. What're those little booklet/sheet things that have the album cover pictures for CDs?

    As in...if I wanted to let the examiner know exactly how I know Steve Gadd was the drummer on Silly Putty, how would I say it?
    "As seen in the [blah] of/with the CD"?
  18. Robert B

    Robert B Supporting Member

    Jan 21, 2000
    Hampton, Va USA
  19. But isn't the term liner notes only used when something's written about the performer(s)?

    Is it just...the "insert booklet"?

    And another exactly do you define "chops"? The dictionary defines it as "the technical facility of a musical performer", but I just want to make sure...
  20. Christopher


    Apr 28, 2000
    New York, NY
    Just say that Steve Gadd is credited as the drummer on "Silly Putty".

    "Chops": what a "cat" acquires after spending months in the "shed" in order to "cut" or "kick it" onstage. Syn. "mad skillz".