My first "build". P-bass to Scroll bass. Some info/advice please?

Hi to all,

I have some questions for you experienced luthiers. I hope that you will be willing to indulge me and answer some of my rookie questions. (I must add that I'm inspired by Mapleglo and Suresh on this one!)

I've never built a musical instrument before, but I have done basic carpentry over the years, as well as having worked with metal when I used to build and repair motorcycles (welding, soldering, lathe and mill work, etc). I know that building a bass requires its own set of skills (and tools) but I'm simply pointing out that I'm not a stranger to building things and how to use various hand and power tools.

Now, I'm not looking to build something from scratch (WAY above my skill, tool and patience level), but I am considering taking an inexpensive (89 Euro) P-bass kit from Thomann:

http://www.thomann.de/gr/harley_benton_bassguitar_kit_pstyle.htm

to turn it into my own version of the Ampeg scroll bass/Eastwood EEB bass:

http://www.eastwoodguitars.com/eeb-1-sunburst/

I plan on using all or as much of the hardware that is provided with the kit (p'ups, pots, wiring tuners, bridge, output jack, strap knobs)

The first main issue I see is having to fill in the route for the wiring that the P-bass pickguard would cover, so that I could cut out the scroll design of the S-bass (S for scroll )

I'm assuming this will be possible to do, of course with some effort and a good amount of glue?
Any suggestions on how to go about it?
It seems that I don't necessarily have to fill in the entire route as the new pickguard I will have to make will cover a good portion of the unused routed portion. Speaking of pickguards, what do you all recommend to source as material for one (I will do a search here on TB as I know this has been discussed before).

That leads to the next question. Is it "better" to fill in the entire unused routed cavity prior to placing the new pickguard (I assume for reasons of sound/sustain and also for mounting points for the new pickguard, although I can just glue blocks in place if it's simply for mounting points) and the route the new cavity as needed, or can I leave the unused route hollow, actually providing a lighter body (although this may lead to major neck dive)?

My next question is in regards to the bridge/bridge cover/pickguard area. I've never had a look under the bridge cover. I would assume that the bridge is mounted directly to the wood of the bass body, and that the pickguard is routed with an opening to fit over the bridge, and then the bridge cover is mounted on top of the pickguard with the cover screws going through the pickguard and into the wood of the body?
(Do the bridge cover screws also go through the bridge through mounting holes??? Doubtful, but I need to ask, as I've never owned a bass with a bridge cover).

This leads me to the question about the headstock. Part of me is considering keeping it as is, simply just reshaping it into a design of my choosing, thus making it more "my" design, and also making it something a bit different than the classic scroll bass(es).

However, part of the big draw of the scroll bass is, well, the scroll!! (I know the Eastwood doesn't have one, and that's the only thing I don't completely like about it, although I'm not at all turned off by it).

So, although I don't know if I'm feeling bold enough to try it, I must ask, how difficult would it be for a "newbie" who doesn't have access to a lot of tools, to (I assume) remove the fretboard, cut off the head stock on this neck, create a scarf joint, and then install a scrolled head off of another instrument (perhaps a smaller head off of a double bass, or maybe a cello? I've yet to measure any sizes to see if they are compatible)?

I apologize in advance if my questions are very basic or are considered too broad or general. As I have no experience, I've tried my best to be as thorough and detailed as possible.

I look forward to hear what everyone has to say.

 

Thanks for the tips and, more importantly, the positive attitude, gmjhowe.

My typing of this post was as I simultaneously had the idea. It popped into my head, and I wrote about it, so yes, I will definitely
be going through many drawings, ideas, mock ups, etc. until the final form is taken and made. That and, more importantly, finances
need to fall into place.

I agree wholeheartedly, as well, that this will be my version, inspired by the Ampeg, so matching it route-for-route and scroll-for-scroll
is not going to be a priority. I'm already tossing around some ideas using the already provided neck.

Gosh, the more I think of this, the more excited I am about it!!

 

Thanks, HaMMerHed, for the tips on how to fill the route. Good info I will add to my new book of building a bass tips!

For arguments sake, could one not take a large amount of sanding dust, mix it with a 2-part epoxy (is there a special type of epoxy for wood? I've
only used epoxy for steel) and just fill in the entire route with that liquid mixture?

I am planning on painting it once it's done. That's going to be a whole other new set of experiences.
From what I've read here on TB, painting a bass is as time consuming and prep oriented as on motorcycles.
I've NEVER wanted to be a painter because I'm just not cut out for it (TOO much prep, too many chemicals, etc).
Not for me. But, I'll do it this one time (famous last words )

 

Bondo? As in "I have a dent in my car, let me fill it with bondo" bondo? Or is there wood specific bondo? wood specific epoxy?

If I was to fill with either bondo or epoxy, would there be an issue if/when I cut out an f-hole and it cuts into/through the bondo/epoxy?

 

Hi Mapleglo

Well, given that I have very few tools to work with (at the moment), creating a new body may be out of the question.
I'll have to see as this project comes to fruition. That's why I'm tempted and trying to use everything that comes with the kit,
with as little woodworking as possible.

Also, wood here in Greece is so very expensive! I had no idea, till I moved here. A 2x4 which I could get for a dollar or so in NY
is about 5 euro here (that's close to 7 dollars or so). So buying a whole piece of wood to make a new body goes against my desire to make
this as inexpensive a build as possible (I didn't mention that in my original post, but that is one of my parameters).

I have no idea is basswood is available here to fill the route. I assume I can use another type of wood if necessary?

I don't know that I'd actually use bondo, but I am fascinated that it's usable on wood.

I must ask again, the epoxy that's been mentioned, is that a wood specific product?

When the shops are open tomorrow I'm going to hit up the local DIY center just to see what's available in regards
to wood, epoxy, paint etc.

 

Something I just considered.

I may decide to cut off the horns of the P-body to more closely mimic the shape of the S-body bass.
If I do end up going that route (no pun intended), I can likely use that wood to fill the route on the
body. Self sufficiency at its finest.

 

First off, seems like this thread double posted. I'm seeing how I can delete the other one, so as to not incur the wrath of the Mod's ( )
and so as to not have info split between the two. Moderator, if you can, please delete the other thread with the same title, as I'm having no luck
figuring out how to do it myself (I don't know if it's even possible for me to do).

Looks like I'm taking the plunge today and ordering the P-bass kit from Thomann as well as a bridge cover. Some friends are also ordering with me
so we will end up not paying the flat 20 Euro shipping fee to Greece.

I've been scouring TB, youtube and the internet for any information I kind find regarding filling routed holes (no luck there), filling
seams (lots of luck there, same/similar to what Hammerhead mentioned), how to make a pickguard, ampeg f-hole templates (no luck there), etc.

In my search, it seems that I'm not the first on TB to have this idea! Came across this, which is very similar to what I'm attempting:

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/trampling-on-some-sacred-cows-scroll-bass-tele-bass.860229/

This, which is a full scroll bass from scratch, with lots of good pics and tips:

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/smb-35-simpson-scroll-bass-project.731825/

And, of course, the website of Bruce Johnson's BEAUTIFUL scroll basses, also with lots of pics and tips:

http://www.xstrange.com/Building/Buildingbody1.html


Seems like it's do-able, and will be a very big learning process (gosh, how I HATE sanding. Always have, always will.
Don't get me wrong, I'll do it, and I'll do it well, but I hate it).

 

Well, I just got the Harley Benton P-bass kit.
All in all, I'm happy with it (still unassembled) and seems to fit the bill for what I want to do.

The hardware is on the cheap side, but, for the time being, it will suit my needs.

I've already bought a "Genuine Fender" bridge cover. Seems to fit well over the bridge.

Now I plan on finding some hi-res photos of the Ampeg and/or Eastwood basses with clear, head
on shots of the F-holes, so that I can print them out full size and use them as templates to see
how it all matches up to the P body. After that, I can decide how and how much of the route
needs to be filled, and if I'm going to cut off the top and bottom horns to match the Ampeg
body style better (I'm definitely more inclined to do it rather than not, as I like that body style).

This will be a slow going project due to lack of funds and tools, but I do hope to make some good progress
little by little.

 

I'd like to ask a question from the more experienced woodworkers and luthiers.

As I don't have a router at the moment, but I may have access to a jig saw, would it be feasible to cut out the f-holes with a jig saw and
then smooth them out by filing/sanding? I know that there would be a consideration of the wood chipping, but at the right speed and with a
good blade I think I can keep it minimal.

I have found an inexpensive router that would be worth buying if absolutely necessary, but then I also have to buy the right bit and, if I"m not mistaken,
they're a little expensive. I'm on a tight budget.

 

Hahahah! Indeed I Do(n't)!!!!!

Drilling holes and drilling seems to be along the same lines as cutting to within 1/8" of the perimeter and then sanding, no?

 

That's a great piece of advice. I have, indeed, used a coping say, but mostly on metal. I VERY much like the idea of doing it by hand because I feel that it will give me a lot more control.
Thank you for the information!

You make a point, though, that brings up another question. I've never used a router before. When creating the template that the router will follow, do I use the router on to make the cutouts on the template, and then smooth the template out with sanding? Or do I use, as mentioned, a coping say or jig saw even to cut out the holes in the template and then smooth that out by sanding?

Edit: And, although I joke about hating sanding, I do realize that it will take a lot of it and a lot of patience to get a nice finish. I may complain about it but I do plan on doing it right, and as best as my abilities allow

 

Wow, very nice, sharp and crisp cutouts. Thank you for the pic and the info. Looks like I'll be cutting them out by hand, after all.
I like that, especially because I can comfortably do it on my balcony without causing too much noise and fuss for my neighbors in the building I live in.
And, buying a scroll or coping saw shouldn't cost too much.

Would you mind posting a pic of the saw and blade you use, for reference?