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My first experience with flatwound strings...

B

bottom_ender

Apr 13, 2021
4
5
#1
I recently had my bass restrung and setup for TI jazz flats (thin gauge - .96 I believe)

I've been playing it with medium gauge round wound (brand unknown) strings since 2009

First impressions - strings were very floppy, but after 1 week of 2 hours playing daily, have tightened up

Inconsistent sound across strings - D and G are starting to sound warm, like I expected flat wounds to sound, whereas E and A still have some zing to them.

E sounds a bit less defined than all but that will also change and they will all sound even - or so I'm told

Also there was a pingy, slightly unpleasant lo-midrange peaky-hype first up, across all strings, which has now mellowed considerably

Sound is articulate, I am aware of the 'note' much more than previous strings, due to fundamental coming through strong, and little in the way of over tones

I am playing more melodically, these strings make me want to explore melody more

I feel I'm a better player with these flats, I feel more confident trying things I maybe would have hesitated to try previously..there were some moments where I was gobsmacked at what I was coming up with

I jammed for 3 hours last night and wanted to keep going, no fear of sore fingertips

Also playing more chords, as they sound good and defined due to less overtones from multiple strings fighting each other - even down low you can enjoy fat, clear chords

Mids - it's all about clear mids (at least with the TI brand) and I can imagine these would sit nicely in a mix and you could really hear what the bass is doing in terms of melody

Overall it feels you are playing silk, a very smooth and sweet feeling, you can jump around fast with no fear of scrapes and squeaks

However, I have lost the sound of my old bass! This is now a different instrument altogether

I can't really dig in to the strings and get rough with them - now a more delicate playing style is required ALTHOUGH having said that I have lowered my action very low so maybe that will be less the case if I go back up a bit?

I can still do the odd pop and gentle slap here and there but you can't really go hard slapping all over the place

Overall I've also lost some of that deep bottom end too, I used to have a solid, deep foundation on the lower notes but now I feel I'm probably back to around 75% of that low energy..and it's interesting to note I can't post-process that back in without it sounding too forced/fake

I am realising you really need 2 basses - one strung with flats and one with rounds

I kind of miss that scrapey, bitey, chorus-y sound I got with my old rounds - and the sweet overtones that would ring out and synergise with effects nicely

There is still sustain, I think TI is known for good sustain with flats but still not as much as rounds where I could go and make a coffee and come back and the note is still ringing out
lol.gif


Anyway, I'll keep going, one thing I know for sure is that I love this sound

It's just that I also want my other sound back

So I'll either restring this bass with original strings and buy a new bass to put these on, or just keep this bass as-is with the flats and buy a round wound strung new bass
 
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#5
bottom_ender said:
I also want my other sound back
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:D it's easy to do if you've ever loved rounds!
bottom_ender said:
I'll either restring this bass with original strings and buy a new bass to put these on, or just keep this bass as-is with the flats and buy a round wound strung new bass
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:wideyed:

i can see what you're doing there...it's probably obvious to everyone else, too. :laugh:

looking forward to your NBD! good luck! :thumbsup:
 
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#8
bottom_ender said:
Also playing more chords, as they sound good and defined due to less overtones from multiple strings fighting each other - even down low you can enjoy fat, clear chords
Click to expand...

This is contrary to my experiece with the same strings - fat yes, clear no; why play chords if they don't ring? By chord I mean, say, C major like this: E8 A10 D10 G9 or E8 Ax Dx G9, aways with the 3rd or 9th etc.

Otherwise I agree with everything and hail to how thoroughly you put it all together!
 
#9
2 basses min required for sure. Actually 4 basses, a P and a J strung up both ways.
bottom_ender said:
I have no way of knowing what gauge the strings were, as the shop did it and didn't give me the pack
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Same rounds since 2009. That's too long for most rounds and regular playing. Also, easy enough to learn how to string up your own bass and know what strings you bought so you can either get them again or avoid them if they fail.
 
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#10
bottom_ender said:
I am realising you really need 2 basses - one strung with flats and one with rounds
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.

Yup. I have the standard TI Jazz Flats JB344 on my Precision. Your description nearly matches my experience with them.

Then I have Rotosound rounds on a Telecaster. Very different feel and sound.

I plan on picking up a Jazz Bass later this year. It'll be strung with TI Jazz Flats too.

These three will cover any tones I need or want.
 
#12
I didn't have inconsistent sound across strings, but it took more than a week of playing for them to stretch and settle in. They got sloppy quickly the first few days. So maybe that's what happened to you too. They weren't holding tune very well. That all went away after a couple of weeks. I'm also very happy with the sustain I get.

Like you, I really like their suppleness and articulate tone across the board. With my amp and a couple pedals I have I can get a deep Motown sound all the way to a modern 70s type punch with them. I don't slap so I can't comment on that. I'm a TI Flats fan now.
 
#13
It's great when you find a set that fits the sound you're looking for. I use TI flats on several basses. On a short semi hollow they sound more bright than on my P. But that makes sense because the gauge is the same. As you learn to play a little lighter you'll find the tone sweetens too. If you are used to dead rounds (2009?) anything will seem lively. You can slam your TI strings into the pickups if you're too forceful. But they have a great tone palette.

And I also agree, if you want to play certain styles it's nice to have that slappy rounds bass in arm's reach too.

And if you haven't noticed already the sticky feel of some new flats goes away very quickly.

Now you're in the cult.
 
#14
bottom_ender said:
I am realising you really need 2 basses - one strung with flats and one with rounds
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^^This^^. I have 2 active PJ5s with different electronics and pickup placement and it took a while to dial in which wanted flats (many-years-old set of TI's) and which wanted stainless (Dunlop Marcus Miller Light, changed every 6 months or so, depending on how much I play). Now, I just take 2 basses everywhere and I have never lacked the exact tone I needed. FWIW, slapping is never a part of anything, but I alternate between a thumbpick and fingers as needs dictate. The one with flats get used the most by a wide margin.
 
#15
That's a very light gauge - you may want to try a more standard flat-wound gauge, such as 45, 65, 85, 105 instead. This will give you a tighter feeling string with more bottom end and better sustain. The attack will also have more punch/thump to it - which gives flat-wounds that classic, earthy, vintage sound. Try LaBella flat-wounds. They make some of the best flat-wounds (they are kind of considered flat-wound pioneers and an industry standard). They can be a little pricey, but the quality is amazing - I loved how they sounded/felt on my Squire CV 70's bass.
 
#17
You're saying this is your first experience with flats so I'm surprised that no-one has mention the fact that TI Jazz Flats are COMPLETELY different to ANY other flats out there. The TIs really are in a category of their own.

Other flats generally have a much darker/fatter tone (there are exceptions like Rotosound 77s but they're still nowhere near the TIs) and most have a considerably stiffer feel (again there are a couple of exceptions and this will of course depend on gauge but they will still be very different from the TIs).

If you want the classic, old school flatwound tone the TI Jazz Flats is probably the worst type of flats you can get. If you want something like say a Motown vibe you would be much better off with the FAT, dark sounding LaBella Deep Talkin' flats (my favourite gague is the 43-104 760FL but you can get then considerably heavier too). These will give you the classic flatwound thump. The TIs won't. In fact, most ROUNDWOUNDS will probably get you closer to a Motown vibe than the TI flats.

The TI flats are one of my favourite strings but unlike other flats they're all about mids, clarity and sustain. They've got slimmer lows than most other strings but beautiful mids with just the right amount of upper mid presence (but not zingy highs). At first the TI flats may sound a bit thin but when you get used to them you may start thinking that most other strings feel bloated in the lows/lower mids by comparison. The beauty of TI flats is that they sit exceptionally well in a mix. The TIs also have a very unique "orchestral" vibe which I guess must be down to TIs background in orchestral strings. No other strings will sound even remotely close.

Even though the TI flats are one of my favourite strings I still have a couple of complaints. The A-string in the regular long scale set should have been slightly heavier gauge IMO. They also have this weird thing where the A-string has a slightly more metallic edge to the sound than the other strings. This will eventually mellow out but will take a LONG time. It won't matter much in a mix but I still find it a bit weird.

The TIs are also extremely light tension and compared to most other strings they need a lighter touch to avoid sounding clanky (or slamming them into the pickups). For this reason I generally won't use them live. At least not for gigs where I know I'll go nuts and dig in hard. But in the studio I use TI flats more than any other strings. The recorded tone I get from these strings is simply gorgeous!

There is of course also a matter of combining the right type of strings with the right type of bass/pickups. On a bass/pickup with very aggressive upper mids the TI flats can sometimes be a little too much IMO. But most of the time they're truly exceptional, as long as you adapt your playing technique to the lower tension.

They won't be for everyone but if you get used to them they could end up becoming your favourite strings. They are truly unique and for better or worse, you won't find anything remotely close to them.

EDIT: I should probably also mention that even though I love the long scale TI flats I can't stand the short scale sets. The extreme jump in tension between E and A make them almost unplayable to me. Unfortunately TIs selection of gauges for bass strings is RUBBISH. They generally just offer one set for each scale length (and for some strings only one scale length too) take it or leave it. I wish they has at least offered single strings in different gauges.
 
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#18
Deleted member 271037 said:
They also have this weird thing where the A-string has a slightly more metallic edge to the sound than the other strings. This will eventually mellow out but will take a LONG time. It won't matter much in a mix but I still find it a bit weird.
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May I ask, how long before you think the A will mellow? And what about the E? After 3 weeks it's still feeling undefined/softer than the other 3 strings..
 
#19
bottom_ender said:
May I ask, how long before you think the A will mellow? And what about the E? After 3 weeks it's still feeling undefined/softer than the other 3 strings..
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I'm not entirely sure to be honest. I've got TI jazz flats on several different basses that I alternate between and it's such a slow process that I don't really think about it. Months rather than weeks I think. Lots of people say the TI Jazz Flats are pretty much broken in out of the box and stay that way forever. They can't possibly have compared two basses with 5 year old TI flats and brand new TI flats. They DO mellow out quite significantly but unlike most other flats I actually think they sound pretty good from day 1. TI flats never become ultra-dark and thumpy like LaBella or GHS flats though. TI flats will always have a lot more clarity, sustain and upper mid presence than the "old school" thumpy flats (which I also like btw).

The slightly brighter A-string is the only slightly annoying thing about the sound out of the box IMO but only when practising alone. I've never found it to be a problem when rehearsing with a full band or in the studio.

A break in period is perfectly normal with flats. In fact, TIs are probably the only flatwounds I personally think are ok out of the box but they still get better over the years, like most flats.

E-string feeling softer/undefined... Well it won't become brighter or more defined, that's for sure. No strings will do that. But the E-string shouldn't be undefined with TI flats. In a fully broken-in set they have a very balanced sound across the strings. In a newer set the E-string will have a slighty mellower sound than the A-string but the E shouldn't be significantly mellower than D and G and it should definitely not sound undefined. A defined, crystal clear sounding E-string is one of the things I love about these strings.

Maybe you've got a faulty E-string? Did you follow the correct procedure for installing round core strings? There are no instructions about this on the packaging but to make sure nothing bad happens I always bend the strings 90 degrees before cutting them (to lock the windings and keep them from unraveling). Basically bend the strings at the point where they would need to be bent anyway when inserting them into the tuning posts and THEN cut them. If not the windings may loosen from the core with round core strings. A possible symptom of this MIGHT be a dull, undefined sound.

Just make sure the string isn't twisted when installing them like this. Make sure the ball end isn't locked in a position when you insert the bent string into the tuning post and when you start winding the string around the post. It's easier to accidentally twist the strings when installing them this way.

At least TI Jazz Flats are available as single strings so worst case scenario you will only need to get a single .100 E-string.

I can't really say if there's anything wrong with your E-string without hearing it but a dull, undefined sound is not normal with TI flats in my experience. This MIGHT be symptom of windings that have loosened slightly from the core and also a possible symptom of a twisted string. But I really can't know for sure without testing it.
 
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