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My first official slam as a bassist...

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by Hategear, Mar 1, 2003.

  1. Hategear

    Hategear Workin' hard at hardly workin'.

    Apr 6, 2001
    Appleton, Swissconsin
    I recently posted the following ad on a local message board, looking for musicians to play and record with. Below is the ad and the replies that followed, including a "poison-pen" reply that has really gotten under my skin. My posts are in bold, the rest are in italics. Let me know what you think about the whole ordeal and PLEASE, don't turn this into a weed versus anti-weed thread! That's not what I want your comments on.

    "Appleton bassist seeks a kick-ass lyricist/lead singer, drummer and guitarist (with lead abilities), for an original rock band and possible recording project. No 'screamers,' detuners, druggies or drunks. Express a bit of intelligence when e-mailing me and don't try to talk over me when I'm explaining the details of the band and maybe you'll be lucky enough to get the call."

    "Does an applicant need a specific hair cut to? Cause I really don't want to cut my mullet..."

    "No, mullets are king."

    "I tune to C and i could drink most of yall under the table...guess i dont qualify bwa ha h a oh and i dont keep my mullet in good enough shape...need to go by more volumizing shampoo i guess"

    "Is it still cool if I bartend at AA meetings? It might conflict withour gig schedule. Those damn recovering alcoholics are so damn demanding. I use to drink everyone under the table at the meetings."

    "well, we are still down a bass player, but we are big drinkers and "stuff." Hopefully you will find what your looking for......"

    "I'm glad you're all having such a good time at my expense. Personally, I think it sucks that a guy that's serious about being a professional can't seem to find people with those same interests. Instead of getting high all the time, work on your chops and give me a call."

    "Lighten up you @#%$ so some people like to have a little fun in a band. Last I checked that was the point of being in a band. Don't think so big of yourself stupid ass."

    "Real cool."

    "but go back and reread your first post...pretty damn condescending if you ask me...a better way to find band members is to keep things open and find out how people are. I love to imbibe in the drink...you could call me a drunk if you want...but im one of the most dedicated ****ers you'll meet and i wouldnt be caught dead drinking heavily before a show. How would i play really well?"

    "yea dude your really demanding, your acting like none of us are good enough for you, and i agree with that one person in order to have a good band your have to have fun if its no fun then whats the point. so with the attitude your using now is gonna get you nothin but @#%$. im not callin you a @#%$ because i dont even know you but if this is how you are all the time in person your gonna be @#%$ out of luck for a long time more close to you wont find a bass player."

    "Holy over reacting bat man."

    "At least the dude knows what he wants. Obviously he thinks by taking a hard-assed approach, all the dumbasses he doesn't want to e-mail him, won't e-mail him. And I think it's worked. Give the guy credit, he's smarter than you lot."

    "Hey...the band I'm in is serious. We don't do any of that stuff...at least I don't. I am the head man, lead singer, and lead guitar right now, and im not a screamer. i have a drummer and have been looking for a bassist. we have song lyrics, we just need a bassist so that we can form up some music....."

    "One of you hit the nail right on the head! My intentions were not to purposely offend anyone, but to put together the most dedicated group of musicians I can find. I am all about having fun, but there's no reason that a band can't have a blast, be professional and reach a goal, all at the same time. I included the line about speaking intelligently in your e-mails to me, because I have received too many e-mails that are worded something like this: 'hey dude, i am a singer. i scream real ****in good and crowds love me. i like bands like godsmack, disturbed, coal chamber, limp bizkit, puddle of mud and every other band that rawks. call me if you wanna talk and **** or i will call you if you give me your number. heavy metal ****in rawks!' If I offended you with any of my entries on this board, then, you're right, you're not what I'm looking for and we wouldn't get along for very long. Walk a mile in my shoes before you judge me based on a message board entry. Thanks."

    "I don't think anyone had any hurtfull or discriminating intentions when replying to your post. Just having a little fun on a message board. I hope you find what your looking for and yes, MULLETS ARE KING!"

    And now, the kicker -- the reason for this whole thread:

    "woah hi Cam......seems your binality knows no boundaries......im sorry but i have to agree with the others that have been slamming you......you are NOT a bassist and i dont understand how you ever claimed to be one....if you do get another band together, im very interested to hear what happens......its quite ironic you dont want anyone who drinks to contact you considering you work in a bar...........sorry just my two cents.....and yes I will sign my name to erase your suspicions on who this is Cam......................Jeremy"

    "Woo. Bad Blood. Yeah, I contacted Cam, as I'm a guitarist lookin' for a band.. He didn't respond after the initial discussion, however."

    "I'm having some difficulty understanding what the purpose of your post was, Jeremy. You and I both know that we don't get along and probably never will, why did you feel it needed to be made public?"

    Nice, huh? The third-to-last post is from a drummer-turned-guitarist that I've played with on several occasions in the past. In fact, he was the main reason I quit my very first band. I know this shouldn't bother me, but I take everything to heart and it does [bother me]. I wonder what some of your opinions on the matter are? Should I just chalk this whole thing up to a case of tabcrawler-itis? My fiancee, who knows Jeremy as well as I do, says she thinks it's some sort of "publicity stunt" on his part, to get his new band's name out there. She said it's like he saw my ad and wanted to let everyone know that he knows who I am (because up until he posted my name, these were anonymous messages). What do you think? I am anxious to hear from some of the "veterans" around here.
  2. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    just some random thoughts -

    your initial post/ad did seem a bit arrogant, and so set you up to these kinds of replies, imo. personally, i would've stopped at "express". maybe rewrite that line as "intelligence and maturity a plus". after all, what are you offering to the potential applicant to make it worth their while to be your bitch? that's what it sounds like you're looking for from that line, or at least that's what i would think. i wouldn't answer the ad because of the "don't talk over me and maybe you'll get lucky" line - that's very controlling, and i don't need that in my life. to be honest, i'd probably post on there that you thought a bit too highly of yourself than you deserved if you were looking to put a band together from scratch with that kind of arrogance.

    that being said, the fact that this jeremy punk made things personal like that seems like an exhibition of a serious personality flaw on his part, and these kinds of people are very easy to manipulate and control. this jeremy sounds like he spanks off thinking about ways to screw with you. i would respond in kind, or even better yet, bring up some old past history that he would better off leave forgotten - nobody with bad blood has a clean slate, i'm sure you could bring up something that would embarrass him.

    or even better yet, apologize for sounding like such a smug, arrogant bastard, restate what you are looking for in less strident terms, and take some passing disdainful insulting swipe at jeremy. the apology would do much to diffuse the situation, and would show that you're a big enough guy to recognize when you did something a little out of line and are man enough to try and fix it, on some level. that's good for building credibility. the swipe at jeremy would perhaps bait him on, which is what you want. the more insulting things he says about you, the more of an obsessed idiot he appears - and the less it seems to get under your skin, the more of an adult you appear to be.

    this all from my past experience dealing with this kind of thing, of course. :)
  3. Woodchuck


    Apr 21, 2000
    Atlanta (Grant Park!)
    Gallien Krueger for the last 12 years!
    To be honest with you, knowing that he had no interest, but posted that anyway, leads me to believe that Jeremy is a moron who wanted to steal some spotlight. If I were you, he would be dead to me. I wouldn't be hostile or anything like that, but I'd never acknowledge his presence. Do your thing man. I hope you get your project going.
  4. Joe Nerve

    Joe Nerve Supporting Member

    Oct 7, 2000
    New York City
    Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
    gotta say ditto on what JT said.

    when i read ....

    Express a bit of intelligence when e-mailing me and don't try to talk over me when I'm explaining the details of the band and maybe you'll be lucky enough to get the call."

    ...it put me in gear for a wise-cracking response. i too wouldn't want to play with or deal with someone with that kind of attitude/ego.
  5. RichBriere

    RichBriere Guest

    Jan 1, 2003
    Upstate NY
    "Express a bit of intelligence when e-mailing me and don't try to talk over me when I'm explaining the details of the band and maybe you'll be lucky enough to get the call."

    The problem with chat boards is that they allow people to say ANYTHING that they want, and this usually includes things that they'd NEVER say "in public". Could ALL of these comments have been made by the same one or two guys?

    Since, as you say, you're posting on a "local board", might you not be better off posting a VERY simple ad and see where it takes you?? ex: "Bassist available.....interested in_____".

    It's obvious that YOU are the only one in your "band" at this point so "Being lucky enough to get the call" might be construed as a bit arrogant in tone........and I'm a kind-hearted old guy.


    Good Luck,
  6. Hategear

    Hategear Workin' hard at hardly workin'.

    Apr 6, 2001
    Appleton, Swissconsin
    I'm just tired of putting ads in the newspaper and getting the same replies over and over and over again. I thought that by stating what I wasn't looking for, I'd save everyone some time and aggravation. I also made the comment about "not talking over me," because that's happened way too many times as well -- someone calls and asks me what I'm trying to accomplish and then interrupts me every three seconds with their own opinions on what I'm saying (I mean, until I say "yes," they're just a guy with an interest, right? Some of 'em act like as long as they play the instrument I'm looking for, they're in the band and have an equal say in how things will get done). If I advertise that I want to start a party-type cover band, I get guys calling or e-mailing me to me to tell me that cover bands go nowhere and that if I really want to make it, I should do this. If I post an ad looking for musicians to do the all-original thing, I get guys calling me and telling me that if you want to build an audience around here, you have to play some covers and you have to do things like this.

    Also, I am not looking for people to be my "potential bitches," but the ad does say "possible recording project," which should lead people to believe that they will be contributing on my songs, not the other way around. When a guy posts an ad that says he's looking for musicians, why isn't it assumed that it'll be his band? If I'm the one footing the bill to record my stuff, don't I have that right? Am I better off saying, "I'm looking for musicians to record my songs, my way. I am footing the bill and you may have some say in how you play your parts, but in the end, it will be my decision and my decision alone as to what makes it into the final mix."

    This whole thing leads me to ask, once again: If you read an ad for musicians wanted and you know you don't fit the bill, or you have a feeling that it's not going to be what you're looking for, or you have a feeling that you're not going to get along with the founder of the band, why even bother replying at all?

    FWIW, I also think that judging someone by what they post on a message board, when you don't know the what or why of what they posted is just plain stupid. I actually met one of the guys that responded to my ad last night (he was the one that replied with, "Well, we are still down a bass player, but we are big drinkers and 'stuff.' Hopefully you will find what your looking for......") in a restaurant and we ended up talking for over 45 minutes! In the end, he gave me one of his band's CDs and said that if I was interested in trying out with them, he'd love to jam with me.
  7. RichBriere

    RichBriere Guest

    Jan 1, 2003
    Upstate NY
    "someone calls and asks me what I'm trying to accomplish and then interrupts me every three seconds with their own opinions"..............

    This is the way that you'll find he entire game of life as it takes you along on its ride.

    It's often better to find out who the local "movers and shakers" are (music teachers, in-demand players, etc.,) and ask them to recommend a couple of good players. NETWORKING, IMHO, is THE way to find the folks that you're looking for. Ads, be they in the paper or on the net are ALWAYS interesting.

    And, with all due respect, a "possible recording project" has been the theme of many ads that I've looked at since 1964. :)

    Keep a song in your heart and a smile on your face but remember that "LIFE's Tough, wear a helmet!"

  8. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    if you're looking for _employees_, then it's customary to state how much the salary range is going to be. if you're looking for bandmates, then you have to give up some to get some, know what i mean?

    footing the bill for the recording project is only in your benefit, not theirs. if you want someone to ask how high when you say jump, you're going to have to pay them too, or else find folks that are so far beneath your level that they will consider it payment to learn from your experience alone, but then what does that get you? without paying someone, how do you propose to attract folks to your party and expect them to treat it seriously?

    on the other hand...

    you lighten the tone some, and look for some real bandmates, that will respect you and what you want to do, but will also have things they want to do that you will be able to respect and believe in as well. the benefit here is that if you find folks who may be willing to help foot the bill of the project in return for more of a collaborative atmosphere. it's not easy. if it was there'd be more real, serious, successful bands.

    i dealt with a very similar moral dilemma when i started to put together my band. it hasn't been perfectly smooth, but i am very glad that i wanted the band to always be a collaborative effort, as opposed to something that was my project alone.
  9. CS


    Dec 11, 1999
    I was going to go the network path but Richard (Briers hello pleased to meet you, I'm Chris) beat me to it.

    BTW given the right set of circumstances I would have wound you up over the ad.

    I was in a similar position to you in 2000. What I did was to seek out and talk to people individually. I managed to build a band from bands, there have been problems and compromises but we are all still friends.

    I would get the singer first and build up a set of songs. Record some very basic versions and borrow a drummer from somewhere. Then approach people with discs and see what happens.
  10. JimK


    Dec 12, 1999
    FME, networking &/or referrals from previous musical relationships is "better" than posting on some board(cyber or of the in-store variety).
    I used to read the boards at the stores for a laff; there may have been ONE nugget buried...though who knows.

    So(for once) I agree with Chris S!

    ...glad you're no longer JT's right hand man).
  11. Turock

    Turock Supporting Member

    Apr 30, 2000
    I believe any "serious" musician would/should demand and deserve more respect than your ad shows. I wouldn't answer any ad that was worded as if a dictator had written it.
  12. malthumb


    Mar 25, 2001
    The Motor City

    I read your ad and had mixed feelings about it. What you done good was specifically stating that you did not want heavy drinkers and/or drug users. That statement alone should've saved a lot of aggravation on both sides. More people should be so specific in their ads.

    What you done bad was the little rant at the end that made it seem as though respondents should feel honored and privileged if you deemed them worthy of a return call. I know that is not EXACTLY what you said, but that is the way it comes across. People who know you or have spent time talking to you may have realized that this was not the interpretation you intended. But remember, people are reading this who know nothing about you.



    Oh, and best of luck with the search and the project.
  13. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Yep. You own the problem. The ad is snotty, even if your intentions are pure. But your biggest mistake is giving a rat sass what the inevitable pinheads and trolls have to say. Why are you even concerned about them? Read 'em, conclude they're not the one, and move on to the next. It's all just 1's and 0's.
  14. Hategear

    Hategear Workin' hard at hardly workin'.

    Apr 6, 2001
    Appleton, Swissconsin
    I know, but that's how I am. I'm working on changing it though. Baby steps...

    ;) ;)
  15. JimK


    Dec 12, 1999
    Great advice!
    ...works well in the 'dating world', too.
    (If I could only remember it!).
  16. RichBriere

    RichBriere Guest

    Jan 1, 2003
    Upstate NY
    With all due respect, I actually hope that you DON'T change. It's been my experience that there aren't NEARLY as many trolls and pinheads in the world as we'd like to believe. There are, quite simply, too many of us who lack good communication skills.

    I'VE been accused of being a pinhead for something that I've written and I found it a bit insulting. I do my best to answer or post ONLY when I've given the matter some careful thought and I don't EVER post anything when I'm upset or don't feel that I can add anything worthwhile to a conversation.

    One of the problems with any type of a posting board is the fact that some folks just like to see ANYTHING that they've written.....in print. They're often totally ignored in EVERYDAY life, so they haul off and get back at society under the protection of anonymous writings. If they can reach out and hurt someone with absolutely NO consequence to themselves, they do it.

    I've found that you're often better off letting the water roll off your back than to get into an internet-argument that you can never win..........but I also enjoy looking for "clues" in discovering my opponents weaknesses. What makes them so short on the trigger?

    As an example, one of the guys who posted things that were a bit cruel concerning your post "appears" to be several people.......but he uses the word "your" incorrectly.....it should be "you're". I'd, therefore, assume that you have fewer enemies from your ad than you thought, as the same person, probably, wrote "a few" of your hits.

    I also have to give you some credit for opening up your closet and asking for opinions about your ad in this forum; that took some courage.........especially because you knew that you were opening yourself up for MORE criticism at the same time.

    Bottom Line.........IMHO, there are too few people who actually CARE about what others think of them and what they represent so they don't give 110% of themselves. Don't change........stay just the way you are.


  17. RichBriere

    RichBriere Guest

    Jan 1, 2003
    Upstate NY
    One thing that I enjoy about TalkBass is the lack of obscenity. I feel badly for the folks who have to read some of the posts on the link that you placed above; it gives ALL of us a bad name.


    You handled it well, IMHO. There's NEVER any sense in arguing with someone on a message board. It's kind of like going to the movies and yelling at the screen. While it might make YOU feel better for a moment, all of the folks who are in the theatre with you are going to be looking for the nearest exit in a hurry. At that point, who learns anything?


  18. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    he will be back :D
  19. Hategear

    Hategear Workin' hard at hardly workin'.

    Apr 6, 2001
    Appleton, Swissconsin
    As soon as I figure out how to open this goofy box-thing...


    ;) :D

    Thanks for the kind words, RichBriere!
  20. I gotta side with Hategear on this one. The ad was a bit blunt but let's face it, it's to-the-point, honest and not discriminating against any one particular person. If you don't like it, don't bother replying.

    For some strange reason, people are under the impression that being in a band is all about drinking, drugging up, smoking and being total jerks. Oh ya, we do "play" music too.

    There were so many times during my band search that I wanted to scream "WHY ARE YOU WASTING MY TIME!!! I HAVE NO PATIENCE FOR TALENTLESS HACKS LIKE YOU!" (Oh, there would be lots of profanity included as well.)

    Oh, believe me, I ran into some of the most clueless, pathetic excuses for "musicians" so I know the type of person to which Hategear is referring.

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