My Les Paul Bass Build - I need a Gibby too...

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by BassHappy, Dec 9, 2014.

  1. ctmullins

    ctmullins fueled by beer and coconut Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 18, 2008
    MS Gulf Coast
    I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured

    Bruce, I always enjoy your in-depth explanations and your obvious expertise. Thanks for sharing!


    Can you make your photos a wee bit larger maybe? :help::oops:
  2. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Commercial User

    Feb 4, 2011
    Fillmore, CA
    Professional Luthier
    You do realize that those are active thumbnails, right? Click on the thumbnail and it goes up to full size. Using the thumbnails is one of the optional features built into TB's forum software. I tend to like writing my posts that way, because it keeps the post shorter in page size and makes it easier to read. Plus, when you come back to the thread later, to see new posts, it's not so much scrolling down through stuff you've already seen to get to the bottom.

    But, okay, I'll edit it and put in the direct full size pictures.
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  3. Hey Bruce

    Yes, I am also grateful that you have decided to post the step-by-step construction of this LP Bass neck. Thank you!

    I enjoy seeing them large too, but I deleted the larger versions that were here as requested.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
  4. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Commercial User

    Feb 4, 2011
    Fillmore, CA
    Professional Luthier
    Rick, you beat me by one minute! You can drop them out of your post. I'll keep putting in the full size images if that's what you guys would rather see.

    Anyway, over to the metal shop to make up the truss rod components.


    Here are the parts that make up the truss rod head assembly. I make up all the special parts myself, right here in my machine shop. I make up most of these parts in batches of 20-50 at a time, and keep little bins of them ready for the ongoing neck projects here. I typically do 2-6 truss rod installations a week. I've made so many hundreds of these parts, that I'd have to dig back to find pictures of me making them.

    The first part is the head and center shaft. It's made from a stainless steel socket head cap screw, 1/4-20 x 3 1/2" long. I cut off the threaded part and just use the shaft and the head. The head fits a 3/16" Allen wrench, and is basically impossible to strip out. On truss rod installations where the head is more exposed, I buff up the stainless and it looks almost like chrome.

    The second part is the aluminum sleeve. It starts out as 6061 aluminum tubing stock, 3/8" OD x 0.260" ID. I cut them to length in my Barker horizontal cutoff mill, and face off the ends true in my Logan turret lathe.

    The third part is the cross bar, made from 6061 3/8" square stock. I cut the angled ends in a special fixture in my small horizontal cutoff bandsaw, and pop them in a special drill fixture to drill the center hole.

    The fourth part is the barrel, made from 360 brass 3/8" round stock. I saw off the slugs in the Barker, drill and face the ends in the Logan, and tap the far end to a 10-32 thread in a drill press with a power tapping head. I use brass for this part for long term durability. The rod itself is stainless. Brass threads on stainless threads is an excellent combination. It's nearly impossible for those two metals to seize up or corrode to each other, even in salt water. I've fought with the Ampeg truss rods for too long. They are steel on steel, and the majority of them have rusted together and snapped over time. I want my truss rods to still work correctly 100 years from now.

    The black rubber block is holding the little 2mm stainless pins, which you'll see below. Before installation, I flatten the ends of the pins a bit, so they lock into the holes.

    The syringe contains automotive wheel bearing grease. I put small dabs of it on the friction faces, where the sleeve and barrel rub on the cross bar, and on the threads.


    The parts are assembled with the grease, and held in a small vise in a drill press. I drill a little 2mm hole down through the brass barrel and the stainless shaft.


    The little 2mm stainless pin gets tapped in. This locks the barrel to the shaft.


    The ends of the pin get ground off flush with the brass on a belt sander. That completes the head assembly.

    The other part is the anchor, which is attached to the far end of the rod. It's made from 6061 aluminum round stock, sawn off and drilled.

    If you are wondering how this crazy thing works, it's like this: When you put the Allen wrench in the head and turn it clockwise (the tightening direction), the head turns the shaft, which turns the barrel. That tightens the threads on the rod, which pulls on the rod. This tension load is taken between the anchor at the far end and the head assembly. The bolt head rides on the sleeve, which rides on the front face of the cross bar. The cross bar is seated in a bed of epoxy against the wood of the neck. It's acting like a big washer to spread the load across the wood.

    Now, the rod is set into a curved channel in the neck. That is, it "droops" in the middle. The center, around the 5th fret, is down lower than the two ends. Because of this droop, when you put tension on the rod, it tries to straighten out. This is what bends the neck. It pushes up in the middle while pulling down at the headstock and the heel. This is the result of turning the head in the Tightening direction: It reduces relief and/or puts the neck into backbow.

    What I've described above is the standard operation of most single-acting single-rod truss rods, such as used in most Fenders and Gibsons. What's unusual about my design is that it also works in reverse. When you turn the head counter-clockwise (loosening direction), the front face of the barrel rides against the back face of the cross bar. As the barrel threads rotate on the rod threads, it pushes on the rod. Because of the droop, this bends the neck forward: It increases the relief and/or puts the neck into forward bow.

    Single-acting single-rod designs can't do that. Turn the head in reverse, and the nut will just unscrew from the rod. My design is a true double-acting truss rod, even though it only has one rod. I know of one or two instruments in the past that used truss rods somewhat like this, such as the Ampeg Baby Bass of the '60's. But I'm not aware of anyone other than me making this type of truss rods today.

    So, why do I use this design? What's the advantage? There are several. The big thing has to do with the "droop". The amount of droop is critical to the function of the truss rod. It's the mechanical leverage ratio of the rod. The more droop there is, the more pounds of force the rod can exert on the neck, for the same loading on the threads. It's like using a lever with a much longer handle. And the space (depth) available inside a modern neck is very limited. With a single-rod design, I can fit more droop into the available depth than I could with a double-rod design*.

    *Tech note: Most double-rod designs don't actually have "droop" or curvature in the rods. Their equivalent mechanical ratio is determined by the spacing of the centerlines of the two rods, and some other geometry.

    The point is that the single rod design allows me to fit in more mechanical leverage. My design will apply more bending load to the neck without getting close to the stress limits of the threads or the parts. I have a test mule neck here with one of these truss rods in it, which I often demonstrate to visitors. It will easily bend back 1/8" and forward 1/16". It's been cycled at least a hundred times and it hasn't broken or failed yet. In nine years of production of these rods, as far as I know, no one has yet broken one. I'm not even sure what would break first. I suspect that tightening it too much would crack the neck somewhere before the rod itself would break. It's strong by design, intended to last forever.

    Another big advantage is weight. Even with the head assembly, this rod design is about 2/3 the weight of a modern double-rod design. There's only one rod. A few years back, I even made a few super-light versions, using 7075 aluminum for the rod and the barrel. They were for a client that had a critical weight issue in his instrument design.

    There are also some big advantages in shaping the sound of the bass, particularly when using a single-rod design, fully encased in epoxy. But that's another whole subject that I don't want to get into here.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
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  5. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Commercial User

    Feb 4, 2011
    Fillmore, CA
    Professional Luthier
    Here's how I make the rod itself:


    I use 3/16" dia 304 stainless steel rod stock for the rods. I buy it in full 12' lengths, and cut it to length for each particular neck. I cut the 10-32 threads on the end with my big old LeBlond Regal 17 lathe. It may seem funny to use such a big machine for such a skinny little rod, but it's actually almost necessary. It takes a lot of gripping power to hold a small rod tight enough to cut threads in the stainless. I used to try to do the job on one of my smaller lathes, and the rod would slip in small chucks or collets. The big 10" Buck chuck on the Regal does the trick. It's such a joy to use this machine. It's from 1949.

    I run the lathe at 30 rpm, cutting the threads with a free-floating die head that I made up, which has a guide bushing in the nose. A few squirts of tapping fluid inside the head as it cuts. This is the actual rod that's going in the LP neck. I cut and thread them to fit as I'm doing the installation.


    At the other end, the aluminum anchor is attached. As with the barrel in the head assembly, I use a 2mm stainless pin to lock them together. The anchor is tapped onto the end of the rod, clamped in a vise, and the hole is drilled down through both parts.


    The pin is tapped in, and the anchor is smoothed off on the finishing wheel. The rod is finished.
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  6. Hey Bruce

    Fascinating! I love these commentaries Bruce and I appreciate you taking the time on them.

    Not to take up more of your precious time - but I was wondering - is there anything particularly noteworthy about making this Gibson type neck for me in medium scale - as opposed to the Fender bolt on which you made for the Performer/Transformer? I mean, obviously this neck is mahogany instead of maple - but this one is also going to be a set neck angled back and leaving the body at approximately a 5 degrees. Does that cause any modifications or considerations on your part? I think it is all about Keith and the way he shapes and positions the neck but I couldn't help but wonder if there was anything else about your approach to the inner workings of the truss rod?
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
  7. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Commercial User

    Feb 4, 2011
    Fillmore, CA
    Professional Luthier
    No, there's no real difference between the truss rod installations of these two projects of yours. Same basic parts and dimensions. Obviously, the LP's neck will be softer structurally, because it's mahogany.

    In terms of how it affects the tone, this type of truss rod will have the same effect on the structure of both necks: It puts a metal tension strap down the back of the neck. So, when the neck flexes, the strap (the truss rod) will keep the wood at the back of the neck from stretching. By doing that, all the movement happens by compressing the wood towards the front of the neck. If you didn't know, one of the unique features of wood is that it has much greater damping properties in compression than it does in tension. Building the neck like this forces the wood to be mostly in compression during the flexing cycle, which increases the damping properties as the wood moves. This damping is what adds the background coloration into the sound; those extra frequency spikes on either side of the root and octaves. The proverbial richness and warmth.

    That's one of the other big advantages of a single-rod truss rod. If the neck is soft enough overall to flex somewhat with the string cycles, then "strapping" the neck with a single-rod truss rod adds coloration/richness. You can't get that with a double-rod truss rod, because it's not functioning as a strap. Leo may have known this, or maybe not. Fender necks usually sound best when their truss rods are tightened enough that they are functioning as a strap.

    Now, if you deliberately build the neck super stiff, then this doesn't matter. If the neck is stiff enough that it barely flexes with the string cycles, then it won't produce any coloration anyway. That's the definition of a "cold" bass. I don't build them like that. I like coloration and richness.

    Back to the specifics of the LP neck:

    Keith and I haven't decided for sure how we're going to do the neck/body joint. My recommendation to him is that it's easier for me to mill an accurate 5 degree angle on the bottom surface of the heel while the neck is still a rectangular blank. Then he can rout the matching pocket in the body with a flat bottom. That's how I've done set-necks for other clients and projects.
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  8. Again thanks Bruce, for taking the time to explain this process to those of us who are learning - and trying our best to catch up with your considerable knowledge base....

    Very interesting about the "flex" of the neck and it makes total sense to me about the coloration. Very well explained. Will be interesting to see how the neck joint on this set-neck will evolve too.
  9. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Commercial User

    Feb 4, 2011
    Fillmore, CA
    Professional Luthier
    Back to the installation of the truss rod into the LP bass neck. This is where it gets exciting. Well, it does if you are really into the intricacies of truss rod installations. And if you are, you should probably consider expanding your social life!


    Here's what the neck blank looks like after the routing is done. You can see the slot for the rod, the routed pocket for the head assembly, and the drilled hole in the front of the routed pocket. On the bench are the various odd tools that I use for fitting the head assembly into the pocket.


    This little aluminum gauge is used to mark the outline of the recess that the head assembly's cross bar fits into. I make lots of aluminum gauges like this, for consistent layouts that I do often.


    This goofy-looking tool is a custom double-handled double-blade stub saw. I made it from a chunk of aluminum plate and two short sections of hacksaw blade. It saws two parallel slots to form the sides of the recess that I'm cutting. The ends of the recess have to be cut at a bevel, and this is the best tool I've come with so far for making this unusual cut. While sawing, I hold it with both handles, but here my other hand is holding the camera. I told you this was going to be exciting!


    After using the saw to cut the sides of the recess, I use a 3/8" chisel to knock out the chunk of wood between them and clean up the bevel.


    Then, I flip the blank around in the vise and cut the other side. There's the completed recess for the head assembly.


    And here's how it fits in there. The recess will be completely filled with West Systems epoxy, submerging the head assembly and the entire truss rod. The only exposed part will be the socket end of the head, for the Allen wrench to fit into.

    And, yes, the parts will still rotate and function inside their shell of hard epoxy because.....I wipe them down with Johnson's Paste Wax before the epoxy goes in! I told you this was going to be exciting.

    Next up, the grand finale.
  10. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Commercial User

    Feb 4, 2011
    Fillmore, CA
    Professional Luthier
    Hang on to your seats, here's where I actually install all that stuff into the neck.


    Here are the parts, ready to be installed. At the top are the head assembly and the truss rod, waxed and ready.

    Then there's the bundle of carbon fiber strands, which form the backstrap that I described previously. I'm using 4 strands of 6K TOW in this installation, if you want to know. The carbon fiber, saturated with the epoxy, lays down in the bottom of the slot, from about the 5th fret back to the anchor. It actually goes underneath the anchor. The little poplar wedge goes on top of the carbon fiber and underneath the back end of the truss rod. It fills the volume between them.

    The filler strip in the foreground is milled from poplar for a snug fit in the slot. It has saw kerfs cut in it, so it can conform to the curve as it is clamped in. Why poplar? Because I have a constant supply of strips of it, cut off from the boards that I use for my Scroll Bass bodies.

    At the headstock, you can see the brass mandrel. It's machined to be a tight sliding fit into the access hole, and it fits into the Allen socket of the head assembly. It keeps the epoxy out of there during the casting process. It also ensures that the socket ends up concentric with the access hole. Like the other metal parts, it's waxed before it goes in. To make sure that it will come back out.


    It's time for the epoxy! I mix up the West Systems (105 resin/205 Hardener) and pour some of it into the slot. The carbon fiber goes in, laying on the bottom, with the poplar wedge on top of it, just in front of the anchor.


    Then the head assembly is threaded onto the rod and dropped in, and the mandrel is tapped into the head. More epoxy is poured into the slot and head recess, and the filler strip is set in.


    Over to the glue-up bench. Three clamps push the filler strip down, forcing the truss rod into the curve of the bottom of the slot. You can see the droop of the rod in the curvature of the clamped filler strip. The whole thing is filled with epoxy. There are no air gaps anywhere inside my necks.
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  11. fjadams


    Jun 7, 2011
    Danbury, CT
    I've never seen any other builder do a truss rod like this. Makes sense though. How did you come up with this system? Trial and error or adding to what somebody else had done?

    Being a mediocre putter together of parts, this stuff fascinates me.
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  12. GBassNorth


    Dec 23, 2006
    This actually is pretty darn exciting! Thanks for taking the time Bruce. :thumbsup:
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  13. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Commercial User

    Feb 4, 2011
    Fillmore, CA
    Professional Luthier
    And here's the cleanup......


    I trimmed off the excess filler strip and epoxy from the top surface on my edge sander, Then I pop the neck blank into this fixture and run a router across it, to make a clean flat surface for the top of the headstock.


    And there it is, a custom neck blank with a super duty truss rod installed. Now it goes back across the hall to Keith.

    I think the next step is for him to decide how he wants to do the heel and neck pocket.
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  14. Yes Bruce,

    Pretty cool that the wax keeps the rod from binding up in the epoxy. I was wondering about that. Thanks for taking the time to show us your entire truss rod system. Again, I find it fascinating - especially with your tongue-in-cheek narrative which keeps me smiling as I read. I have to say I REALLY like it when you post the larger photos, much easier to follow along!

    The neck looks super Bruce! Keith chose a darn nice slice of mahogany for the neck blank.

    I have decided to forgo the roasted maple board I was planning to use for this build, even though the most recent Gibson LP Basses use it. Keith suggested, and I agree - that I stay with the more traditional Les Paul material - Brazilian Rosewood. It is very hard to find in 24" bass fingerboard lengths - I mean it is scarce and hard to find any legal Brazilian at all these days - but most of the fingerboards you see for sale are guitar size.

    I have a line on a couple of boards, should know in a couple of days how that all pans out.
  15. Looks clean as a whistle Bruce!

    Thanks for you kind help in this - much appreciated!
  16. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Commercial User

    Feb 4, 2011
    Fillmore, CA
    Professional Luthier

    For a fingerboard for this bass, I recommend Pau Ferro (aka Morado). It's a good medium density brown fingerboard wood. Plentiful, relatively cheap, nice straight pretty grain, stable, good machining properties. If you can, get some roasted Pau Ferro. My luthier client Mike Lipe got some roasted Pau Ferro fingerboard stock from his roasted wood supplier, and we used it on some of his necks. It was beautiful, like prime pieces of Brazilian rosewood. The roasting darkened the Pau Ferro down to almost chocolate brown. It still had all the good machining properties.

    I wouldn't waste your time and money chasing some piece of Brazilian rosewood. Most of the Brazilian boards that clients have brought me in recent years weren't worth anything close to what they paid for them. I could have bought new Indian rosewood that was just as pretty and more solid, for a fraction of the price. So many other nice woods to choose from.
  17. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Commercial User

    Feb 4, 2011
    Fillmore, CA
    Professional Luthier
    I'm glad you are fascinated, and I hope it inspires you to step up your level of putter togethering! I keep trying to show people that what I do isn't really that hard, once you can see the goal and figure out a process. Yeah, I have a whole shop full of cool machines to make things easier. But you can make all kinds of interesting things with just a workbench of hand tools too.

    How did I come up with this truss rod system? A long process of engineering development. I don't know if you saw my resume up in the Hardware/ProBench section, but I am a genuine bona-fide R & D engineer. I've spend a long career inventing and developing mechanical stuff. That's what I do.

    The origins of this truss rod system go back to 1993, when a couple of us teamed up to do a bass development project for the (original) SWR company. A whole story in itself that I won't get into here. That was where I started to understand how the structural characteristics of the neck affect the tone of a bass. I worked out the basic idea of fully surrounding the truss rod in hard epoxy; the process and how to make the parts. I also started playing with reinforcing necks with the carbon fiber stranding. The truss rods in those SWR basses are fairly close to what I make now; a simpler, single-acting version. I did a lot of experimenting with test necks in 1994-1995 and learned a lot.

    After that project was over, and I started into making my own Ampeg-style Scroll Basses in 1996, I continued with those basic ideas for the construction of the Scroll Bass necks. I kept experimenting and refining the design over the years. I also started building custom necks for clients and other Luthiers, which allowed me to experiment with many variations on the design. I've done roughly 1000 custom truss rod installations over the past 20 years. All kinds and sizes and special problems. These days, I supply custom truss rods to about a dozen Luthiers. Most are similar to what you see here on Rick's neck, but others are special variations for individual clients.

    I developed the double-acting version in 2006. I'd been putting the single-action versions in necks for Mike Lipe's guitars for years, with very few problems. But his customers kept asking why his expensive guitars didn't have double-acting truss rods. Because, you know, they read that All the cool guitars have double-acting truss rods! So, I shrugged my shoulders and worked out my design for a double-acting version of my epoxy-encased single-rod truss rod. Built them; tested mule necks; they worked great. We started using them in Mike's guitars in late 2006 (I think?) and I started using them in my Series IV Scroll Basses. So now we could demonstrate to our customers that our truss rods are indeed Double-Acting. Our instruments are therefore cool and worth the price.

    In reality, the double-acting feature is rarely if ever used. I asked Mike about it the other day. We've done about 400 of his guitars and basses with the double-acting design truss rod now. I asked him how often he needs to use the reverse feature. He said basically never. During setup, he'll sometimes reverse it a bit just to verify that it works. But he doesn't remember ever sending an instrument out that needed to have the truss rod set pushing it forward. And he hasn't heard of a customer needing to use reverse out in the field.

    Same with my Scroll Bass necks. I build them carefully to be very stable, and they are. They rarely need any truss rod adjustment, and never need to go in reverse. If one of my necks ever moved that much, I'd want to bring it back here and fix it!

    Most of my truss rod installations these days are the double-acting version, as shown here. Because, you know, the customers want them. But a few of my clients use single-acting variants for their necks. Bill Asher's electric guitar line uses a single-acting, heel-access spoke wheel version. Michael DeTemple's guitars use a special single-acting skunk-stripe design. Those are two I can think of right now.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2015
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  18. Hey Bruce

    Thanks for this.

    In my research for this build, I noticed that Gibson used roasted maple for the fingerboards on the last couple of go-rounds on the Les Paul basses they manufactured. So I found a couple of nice pieces of roasted maple that Keith now has using the same source that Pat Wilkins uses. Keith was checking it out and noticed that the roasted maple was a little on the soft side for his liking. We both kind of scratched our heads and went - "what would be ultimate?" We both agreed it would be Brazilian Rosewood, so I am on a mission. I don't like to compromise in certain areas, and - so far - this is one of them. Gibson used Brazilian on the early killer Les Paul's for a reason.

    I don't know how much you know about my history and stuff - but Paul Reed Smith is a bud and I have PRS #11, which was published in Vintage Guitar Magazine. We were the first to ever write him a check and say "Here, build us a couple of guitars." It's here if you want to take a peek:

    Paul Reed Smith #11

    Paul built me the 7th instrument he ever built and we had problems with it. He loaned me the twin #11 then later on gave me the bad news and told me it would take a year to build another one. All was fine except I decided not to give back #11 - but to keep it in exchange for #7. I had sold my Rick and it was the only bass I owned. Well this was 1977-78. Paul is a Gibson fan as you probably know - and when I started this build I was telling Paul how nice it would be to have a killer Les Paul reminiscent flamed top. So, he donated one to the project which now Keith and I are going to use for both matching top AND back.

    I am only mentioning that to tell you this - I haven't been able to find the right Brazilian board so far - so I emailed Paul yesterday to see about getting a Brazilian Rosewood fingerboard from him. As I was showing Keith last night, he even makes necks out of it on his high end guitars, so he must have a nice stash. My guitarist has several PRS custom Private Stocks and he loves the Brazilian Rosewood necks - wouldn't play anything else.





    So the point is - I am on the stubborn and hard headed side - and I like to exhaust all reasonable possibilities first and foremost. So while I do appreciate the fingerboard suggestion very much - I am waiting to hear back from Paul. If this doesn't pan out I will certainly check out the pau ferro, which is a great suggestion! I have pau ferro board on my MIM Urge I bass, which is the bass Keith copied for the Performer/Transformer. I love that board and that neck and come back to it time and time again.

    Keith also has a Brazilian board in his stash which would work, and he is emailing me a better photo of. It has a knot but in the original photos he sent it was hard to see. I am not opposed to knots at all or other blemishes, but I want to see this one clearly to see if the board speaks to me. I like wood with a little character.

    Great to hear of your history and the history of how the neck construction developed. Keep it coming, I know a lot of folks are shy to post but I am sure it gets read a lot more than you might think.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2015
  19. Hey Bruce

    In terms of my putter togethering skills - a man has to know his limitations. As far back as high school wood shop I realized that I simply don't have the talent, aptitude or patience to become a first rate putter togetherer. If I don't have the ability to be world class at something - I am smart enough to realize it and move on. It's just the way I am wired. Sure, I can do simple straight-forward assembly and I am getting better all the time at my set ups, but that is where I draw the line.

    I run my own business for 30 years and well - I have my own studio with three album projects going right now. Time is of the essence, at least until these projects get finished.

    Additionally, I have no work space available for some simple tools and machinery and there are no local wood shops I have found that rent out time. Believe me, it's on my bucket list. i would love to have a shop to tinker in and hopefully some day it is in the cards....

    By the way, I think we resolved the finish issue for this bass. This honeyburst is my all time favorite LP finish and we are going to try our best to get in this ballpark:

    9 0905-01.jpg

    Honeyburst is Keith's favorite too, so there is consensus.

    Last edited: Nov 11, 2015
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  20. GBassNorth


    Dec 23, 2006
    Hap - with a bass build this epic and in honey burst to boot you absolutely have to put these knobs on it...
    They go to 11! :thumbsup:
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