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NASA learned its lesson? NOT???

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by steveksux, Jul 26, 2005.


  1. Does this strike anyone as particularly ironic, given this is the first flight after the last disaster?

    Personally I think it couldn't be more clear than if Griffin had announced "Actually, we haven't learned a single freaking thing in the last few years since the accident."

    It may very well be justified in this instance. But losing that precise attitude was job #1, and they've clearly not learned that lesson. This kind of "flexibility" guarantees sooner or later you'll accidentally ignore the wrong safety margin. Again. Whether its O rings that are too cold to seal or little "harmless" bits of foam that finally hit the wrong place.

    Randy
     
  2. "Acceptable risk"? That's laughable. NASA is willing to risk the astronaut's lives for what? A Tang party at 122 miles above the surface of the earth? Oh yeah, that's worth it.

    Randy, you want real irony?? From the website http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/:
    Wow. I can't help but wonder if this Shuttle's mission should have started on the ground.

    Mike
     
  3. Tsal

    Tsal

    Jan 28, 2000
    Finland, EU
    Dunnaw, but I'm watching the launch at the moment. I guess the engineers are as anxious to get 'er off as the rest of the bunch.

    T -22 and counting :hyper:
     
  4. meeting deadlines is the american way...forget if its ready or not, for instance...look at windows XP and the hundreds of recalled products.
     
  5. Flanders

    Flanders

    Oct 30, 2002
    Reno, NV
    I just wonder if NASA is going to wait for the whole fleet to be lost before retiring it. I would think that since 1981 we would have a next generation shuttle in service by now. The technology has moved far beyond where it was in the early days of the shuttle. I was saddened to hear about the last missions ending. I woke up on my birthday to find out that she had blown up over Texas. Not a good way to start the day.

    Godspeed to our astronauts on their return to Earth.
     
  6. Godspeed to our astronauts on their return to Earth safely. Last crew returned to Earth too.

    Still think they should retire any remaining Shuttles that start with the letter "C".

    Randy
     
  7. Flanders

    Flanders

    Oct 30, 2002
    Reno, NV
    Ah yes! That's what I meant.
     
  8. Selta

    Selta

    Feb 6, 2002
    Pacific Northwet
    Total fanboi of: Fractal Audio, AudiKinesis Cabs, Dingwall basses
    If you guys would actually get the latest news you'd know that the mission was given a 100% thumbs up, zero errors at roughly 10am this morning. And, if you would know the slightest bit of how those things worked, you'd realize that there are FOUR sensors that they had, and of those four, one was not working properly. NASA didn't even have to delay the mission in the first place, but they wanted 100% go/no-go. And right about now you may be wondering why I'm standing up for the space program and how I know these things. Well, I'm an Aerospace Engineering student at the best school in the Nation, if not the world, for it, Embry-Riddle, and I went to conferences and been to the cape over 3 dozen times. If I would've been in Florida this summer, I could've been in mission control. There's a lot that the public doesn't know, and there's a lot you don't need to know.

    -Ray
     
  9. James Hart

    James Hart

    Feb 1, 2002
    toms_river.nj.us
    Endorsing Artist: see profile
    :spit:

    CMU all the way!

    ;)

    Yeah, lots of stuff the general public just doesn't know... Ray's up on this topic for sure!
     
  10. Selta

    Selta

    Feb 6, 2002
    Pacific Northwet
    Total fanboi of: Fractal Audio, AudiKinesis Cabs, Dingwall basses
    Don't get me started on CMU. :p. Sorry I came off as a bit of an ******* in the last post everyone too. I just get a bit emotional about these things and how people are about them. And considering my current state of mind, I snap easily :p. To Flanders, you said about updating the fleet. Do a quick search on the X71 and similar programs started, but failed due to lack of funding. You can thank our government (and yes, BOTH parties are equally responsible for this) for not giving the space program enough money to be able to research new technologes enough to implement them into use.

    -Ray
     
  11. burntgorilla

    burntgorilla

    Jan 24, 2005
    Belfast

    Eh? I'm assuming with the "there's a lot the public doesn't know" bit you're referring to the various sensors and stuff. I read all that on the New Scientist website.
     
  12. Selta

    Selta

    Feb 6, 2002
    Pacific Northwet
    Total fanboi of: Fractal Audio, AudiKinesis Cabs, Dingwall basses
    Nope, it goes way, way beyond "the various sensors and stuff". Give me a team of my fellow students, all the parts, the time, and the money, we could design, prototype, build, repair, setup and launch our own space vehicle. Probably about 33% of the information on the Space Shuttle requires a higher clearance than any civilian can get (not "Top Secret" or "classified" or anything, but just not publicly available - gotta take two tests and have a few other requirements to be able to access some information).

    -Ray
     
  13. neptoon

    neptoon

    Jul 25, 2000
    summerville, sc
    i think he's talking about a lot the general public doesn't know due to level of classification of what's actually going on...who knows, maybe it wasn't a fuel sensor that went bad...maybe it was a no-go from general hammond at stargate command...u.s. navy submariner here! lot of stuff people don't know about my community either, but think they do...and would fall out of their chairs if they did, i'm sure

    :bag:
     
  14. Selta

    Selta

    Feb 6, 2002
    Pacific Northwet
    Total fanboi of: Fractal Audio, AudiKinesis Cabs, Dingwall basses
    Hehe, I know excatly what you mean... if people knew a lot of governmental things, their heads would most likely explode. No offense, and beyond NASA and the Space Program I'm pretty ignorant to government actions and policies, but I know there's a TON more going on than I know. But, I know at the same time, that it's prolly for the best. Ignorance is bliss... but it's still ignorance! :p

    -Ray
     
  15. Really, we don't need to know exactly how they work to know that there are four sensors, every media outlet on the planet has advertised that. WHy install four sensors if they are not all needed? Is the one that failed the aerospace equivalent to The Shuttle's appendix? I suspect that if they are not all needed, then there are four as a part of a safety standard...a standard that they should probably adhere to. If I was getting blasted into The Great Used To Be Unknown, but Now Kinda Known, I'd certainly want an elusive electrical gremlin to be eliminated. But hey, I only help fund this crap.

    Mike
     
  16. Flanders

    Flanders

    Oct 30, 2002
    Reno, NV
    I've talked to many people about this (not anyone involved with the program, mind you), and a lot of people think short sightedly about the space program.

    "What about here on Earth? Starving people!"
    "What possible good is it to hit comets?"
    "I just saved a crapload of money on my car insurance!"

    I just wish people could see the long term benefits of having an active space program. We have to pay taxes, it's just too bad we have no say in what they are applied to.
     
  17. Guess who's REALLY the one not paying attention....

    Yes you only need 2 out of the 4 working. So even 3 out of 4 has a safety factor if the one had malfunctioned again today. And it didn't happen to malfunction today.

    But the rule they decided on after the Challenger disaster (the first one, not even one of the new rules after the latest disaster) was 4 out of 4 were required to launch. And even though the launch DID go off without a hitch, with all 4 fuel gauges working correctly, the plan was to launch even if that fuel guage was acting up, so there'd be only 3 of 4 working.

    The point was on the very first mission after Columbia blew up, they're already rewriting established safety rules on the launch pad to get the launch going. The point isn't whether it was safe or not, whether it malfunctioned or not.

    The point is the willingness to shoot from the hip at the 11th hour and not stand by the original decisions on launch safety requirements.

    They worked on it, swapping wiring harnesses to the fuel gauges, fixing ground connections, basically guessing without really knowing what was going on or why, and decided to launch even if the fuel gauge malfunctioned again. One guy even hoped a gauge WOULD malfunction during the launch so they could troubleshoot the problem, figure out if the problem followed the wiring harness or stayed with the same gauge that malfunctioned the first time.

    That's not the Right Stuff Nasa is known for, that's Dukes of Hazzard engineering. Hey Duke, swap them wires over yonder... Ok, Bo... try 'er now....

    Check the microsoft website for the Irony patch to your browser.

    Randy
     
  18. ...with Waylan Jennings doing the voice-over:

    "Ole Bo and Luke have never tried to switch out a fuel sensor on a space shuttle before, but them boys'll do jest about anything to get away from Boss Hog"

    Mike
     
  19. Yup... those shuttles starting with letter "C" are just tempting fate...
    :D

    Randy
     
  20. Selta

    Selta

    Feb 6, 2002
    Pacific Northwet
    Total fanboi of: Fractal Audio, AudiKinesis Cabs, Dingwall basses
    It's call redundancy. How many bassists take a backup to a gig?

    I am very insulted by this entire statement. Yes, NASA wanted all four to be working, but it would've been perfectly fine to only have three. That would've left for two redundant sensors the entire mission. As I said earlier, that'd be like taking three basses to a gig.
    And they had to guess what was wrong, cos hey, that's part of problem solving! When your bass stops working mysteriously, do you know excatly what is wrong with it? Heck no you don't. You try the battery first. If that doesn't work, check cables, then the amp, etc. etc. Try being an A.E. major sometime.

    -Ray

    Edit: Also, don't listen to everything the media baby-feeds you. Usually, it's either misinterperted, or just wrong. :)