NCD!! I stood on the shoulders of giants and found my sound (Ampeg V4 4x12)

As I have mentioned in a few other threads, I have been looking to recreate the sound of my Carvin fretless, Ampeg V4B and V4 4x12 from 30-odd years ago. Well, I have finally done it.


I picked up a '73 era Ampeg V4 4x12 cabinet from Guitar Center about 2 months ago, and found that it had 3 original CTS 8 Ohm speakers and one replaced with a Peavey Scorpion. The cabinet and tolex were in good shape, just a few peeling edges that a little bit of super glue will fix. However, the Peavey had 3 rips/holes in it, so it needed to be replaced. I got Guitar Center to refund me $50 from the price I paid to compensate for the bad driver, and I then went on a quest to find a suitable replacement.


Naturally, TalkBass had nearly all the answers I needed (thank yous below).

Seeing as I already had an Ampeg V4B (new reissue) and 2 SVT 210AVs, I figured I wanted a 4 Ohm cab to compliment the 4 Ohm load presented by the 2 210s, for a total of 2 Ohm. For whatever reason it is nearly impossible to find 4 Ohm 12" bass speakers, so I placed a custom order with Eminence for 4 Basslite S2012s at 4 Ohm each. It took about a month and a half to get them, but they came in on Friday.

Holy cr@p, these things sound awesome!!! Deep, round, tight, and full. AND they weigh less than 4 lbs a piece vs the 7 3/4 of the original CTS. The cab itself weighs in at 47 lbs, so with the new speakers it's around 65 lbs.

Eminence did a great job on the custom Basslites, and the new drivers in the cab presented just over 4 Ohms (2.9 Ohm on a DC multimeter) wired in series/parallel. Each driver showed 2.7 or 2.8, so I think the final 2.9 was due to the added speaker cable with the original 4-pin XLR connector (thanks to Fliptops.net).


Thank you to all the TalkBass giants on whose shoulders I stood. Thanks to you and TalkBass, I have finally gotten what I have wanted in a bass rig since I left high school (more years ago than I care to count). They are:
@johnk_10 (a Giant amongst Giants)
@Jimmy Riot
@rllefebv
@dubstylee
@big stubby
@jastacey
@Jazz_bass2664
@denton57
@beans-on-toast
@JimmyM
@funkytoe

I may have left off a few, and if I did miss anyone who has done this mod and posted about it on TalkBass, I'm sure I read your post over the past couple of months. Thank you to you as well.

And because more Ampeg is better, I present to you, my Wall of Sound.
The combined 3 cabinets with the V4B sound absolutely amazing. I'm sure I will never play this rig like this out anywhere, as it's pretty top heavy, but boy it looks sexy!

Just for fun specs, the V4 cab with Basslites is 600w RMS (150w x 4), so with the 2 210avs at 200w RMS each, this bad boy can do 1000w RMS. I'd bet this would give any SVT810 a run for its money. AND I put the V4 cab together for less than an SVT212AV would have cost, so the entire cabinet set was less than an SVT810AV (and a lot more portable )

 

Thank you for the correction @Omega Monkey; good to know should I want to do a high-power class D, or the like, down the road.

Agreed as well on the side-stacking of the 210s; that may help. I did find that the 4x12 next to the 2 210s stacked vertically was not a huge difference, so that’s another possibility.

 

Fair enough @BassmanPaul; I’ll get a new Family Photo together tonight to share.

 

I got lucky, as my 1988 was one of the few years that Carvin used the H13B humbuckers that had 2 more poles than the older H11 series. This pickup dealt with the volume issue on the outer strings. For whatever reason, Carvin moved away from the H13 after only a couple of years, and the issue resurfaced.

There is a beautiful LB60 in Koa on reverb right now, but it has the H11s, so I’d be a bit concerned about the behavior you described.

 

Here you go @BassmanPaul


The Long Lost Rig Returns


The Carvin and the Wall of Sound


The Immediate Family Portrait


The Extended Family Portrait

 

Glad to hear it was something pretty simple, and that you were able to fix it permanently.

I know I’d be nuts if my LB90F had a problem like that.

 

Just as a quick follow up, I took the V4B and V4 cab rig to rehearsal a couple of nights ago, and when I played the first couple of notes to warm up, our BL said, “Oh, I like it already”. It sounded awesome on everything.

AND I could carry it from and to my car, up a set of stairs and into the practice space (about 40 yards total distance one way) without getting winded or breaking my back. It weighs less than my 8yr old son. I do want to build an Ampeg style dolly for it though, just for that additional ease of schlepping.

It was funny to see everyone’s face when I dead lifted it though...

 

Thanks!

Honestly, at this point I have not had a reason, other than initial testing, to run both the V4 cab and the 2 svt210avs together. The V4 provides all the volume I need. I do find that I prefer the V4 over the svt210avs for tone. It is bigger, rounder and has just more presence to my ears. As such, I don’t mind carrying it around, now that it is only about 65 lbs with the new speakers in it.

Given your explaination, I would probably do this:
1) Keep the V4 stock speakers for now
2) Replace the Peavey with 1 svt210av for ease of portability, etc
3) Play the V4 amp through the single svt210av and see what you think. It will likely be enough volume for practice and small gigs, if you want a lighter load in and out vs the V4 cab
4) Once you do the above, consider replacing the V4 speakers if you feel that tone or volume are wanting

Of note, my upgraded V4 is louder (i.e. more efficient) than the 2 svt210avs together at the same settings.

I would not likely run the V4 and one svt210av together, as you correctly described, the 2 drivers in the svt210av will get 1/4 the power each, and the drivers in the V4 will get 1/8 power each.

I hope this helps.