NCD X2, NPD x2, and a Rant!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by bdplaid, Feb 2, 2018.


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  1. bdplaid

    bdplaid Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2007
    Actually this happened over the last week, but here we go:

    Two TC Electronic K212 cabs
    Tech21 NYC Q/Strip
    Ampeg Classic Pedal

    20180201_131221_HDR.jpg

    20180201_131211_HDR.jpg

    This all happened because a couple of rehearsals ago, I lost my mind over not being able to consistently get enough low end. I was using a high-end 410 that costs about $1300, and the Quilter amp above.

    Then it came to me how I have fought with that issue ever since "modern times," where we have lightweight this and lightweight that. In a flash I remembered what I had learned long ago in the bad old days, that one can't fight physics. I decided on the spot to add more speaker area, and be able to do it in a linear array.

    This is no small feat, mind you, because feckin' cab makers still want to package 12" speakers in a diagonal array. There are only a couple who make 212 cabs in a line, and TCE is one of them. I decided to plunge.

    I like the K212s a lot. Individually, one K212 sounds very even and can get loud, and can be pushed into subbass territory. But then there's physics and cone area...

    Add a second K212 and lay it on the floor as I have and there's so much bass the amp only has to yawn to push it out.

    And this was my goal: Increase the (super) low end dramatically while keeping it easy on the equipment. And be able to hear myself!!!

    The pedals were added because I was using an Ampeg SCR-DI, and while I like that pedal a lot, it's huge and I wanted more space on the board. The Classic is just the one side of that pedal, the side that I used.

    The Q/Strip was added to fight all the acoustic crap we deal with in clubs. It sounds really good and is an awesome adjunct to the Quilter BB800.

    So there we are: mission accomplished (so far), but it ain't lightweight, but probably as light and compact I can get for what I'm doing these days.

    Note to cab manufacturers: make a decent modern 215 with enough height that a bass player can actually hear it. I don't really miss the old days, but at least I could hear myself with the likes of this:

    canvas.png

    Thanks!
     
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  2. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Inactive

    Stand both cabinets on their ends for a vertical 4x12 and see what that does for you. :)
     
    DiabolusInMusic likes this.
  3. Agreed! I love my vertical 4x12 stack!
    tc rg.jpg
     
  4. bdplaid

    bdplaid Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2007
    That was my original thinking actually, but I wanted more low end, and they're a bit to tall to stack.
     
  5. bdplaid

    bdplaid Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2007
    But I am having an issue which i think is going to send them back: i didn't realize they have rear ports, which throws all the low end away from you unless there is a wall behind you. Outdoors gigs like the one I had yesterday, nothing behind me. So I have a good bit of what I had before with my 410, via the rear ports: No low end unless you stand right on top of it or are in a room where you can put it against the wall. I'm in Florida where we do a lot of outdoor gigs, so this is a problem.

    I think I'm going to look for a 215.
     
  6. Thundar

    Thundar Supporting Member

    I understand your dilemma ;)
    I happened on to a fantastic deal on an LDS 215 and it has turned out to be the perfect cab for me...900W, Eminence 3015's, 4 Ohms, 70 pounds, kickback casters with a tug-bar...and its just tall enough to make it easy to hear.
    20150513_160148b_zps3wzue64x.jpg
     
    bdplaid likes this.
  7. bdplaid

    bdplaid Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2007
    That LDS looks nice.
    The K212s are nice, they have a really great balance between the horn and cabs. I just can't deal with the rear ports. Too bad.
     
  8. voided3

    voided3

    Nov 11, 2008
    A pair of 1x15 cabinets will most likely be easier to source than a 2x15 (other than the good previous suggestion for the LDS cab). Using my Orange 1x15 as an example, a pair would still stack quite tall at 41”, but laying both cabs on their side would make the stack about 48”, the same height as an 8x10.

    That said, it sounds like your main cabinet specification criteria is good low end extension and forward facing ports (in addition to being tall). I wouldn’t limit yourself to one speaker configuration. You may find a pair of 2x10 cabs that fill the bill, for example, or even a 6x10 or 4x12.
     
    bdplaid likes this.
  9. bdplaid

    bdplaid Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2007
    I think you read me right.
    610s are 412s are just too heavy for me to manage.
    I have a Mesa Subway 115 and have used it with a second SW115 and it was outstanding. The reasons I didn't just add another is that Mesa had a price increase and I didn't want to spend $900 for a single 15, and i thought I wanted to go with 12s. I used a 412 "back in the day" and liked it, and I had a 1x4 10 inch rig that was also nice. so, thinking exponentially, a 412 stack is mo better, right? :)

    I like single cab rigs, hence looking for a 215. But right now aside from looking for a 215 cab I'm thinking to not be cheap and get another Subway 115 and be done with it. We'll see.
     
  10. voided3

    voided3

    Nov 11, 2008
    True, if you have a cabinet you like, a second will be more of a good thing. I agree that keeping the piece count on gigs low, regardless of piece size, is always easier, but a pair of SW115 cabs easily stack on a hand truck so they can be moved as a one unit.

    What’s your limit on weight? I know the GK Neo 4x12 is 90 pounds and being a fridge-style cabinet you don’t have to lift it, just tilt into the back of your car. I’ve debated trying one down the road for when my Ampeg 8x10 gets to be immovable as the GK is 65 pounds lighter! I have a pair of Rumble 2x10 cabs as my lightweight option already, though.
     
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  11. bdplaid

    bdplaid Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2007
    I try to keep the weight under 50lbs per can. A 90 lb cab would have been a bitch yesterday as we had to go up a half dozen steps to get on the stage.

    I was looking at the rumble 115s as a cheap option as I have had their 112 and liked them. But I want to go a little better quality than that.
    Thanks
     
    voided3 likes this.
  12. voided3

    voided3

    Nov 11, 2008
    Understandable, in regards to weight. I always try to plan ahead for every gig based on the load-in as it varies a lot for us, which gives me an excuse to buy more cabs :D. GK does make a diagonal Neo 2x12 that’s front ported and about 50 pounds. I know you’d prefer straight up vertical, but the cabs are 23.5” tall so stacked they would be 47” tall, maybe 50” with caster wheels on the bottom cab.

    I own a pair of the Rumble 2x10 cabs and they have treated me well, but I can understand wanting to go more upscale. I use an Orange 1x15 for my standalone cab and it puts out a crazy amount of sound for a 1x15, but at 65 pounds it’s a little porky (haha). If I got the Rumble 1x15s instead, I probably would have put an Eminence Kappalite 3015 in them to make them even lighter and have more power handling, but it would be a guess if it would work with the cabinet tuning and I’m sure the stock drivers are good, based on my experiences with the 2x10s. I may throw a Kappalite in my Orange, though, as it’s a standard TL606 cab and is known to work well with it.
     
    bdplaid likes this.
  13. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Inactive

    OK Shorty! :D
     
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  14. bdplaid

    bdplaid Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2007
    Well no sooner did I air my complaint than I found a used Subway 115 with D800+ for a good price. I've had two SW115s before and they were nice. Not sure why I sold the second one, but this should fix my issues.

    I'll still use the Quilter, but the D800+ (I used to have one of those too) is a stellar amp and I'll use it as backup.

    Not a bad day.
     
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  15. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Inactive

    I’m glad you are happy with your purchases Shorty. :)

    Just noticed you joined up a few days after I did. :D

    Edit: I’ll have to stop calling you Shorty or it might just stick! LOL
     
    bdplaid likes this.
  16. mesaplayer83

    mesaplayer83

    Jun 27, 2017
    Yeah, you should be good to go now - add a folding cart that will haul both cabs, and it's easy peasy... Plenty of low end from these babies:



    In comparison, I also have this - but don't feel I'm losing anything low end-wise when I play my Subways:

     
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  17. bdplaid

    bdplaid Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2007
    On the bright side, the pedals worked great. I've actually got too much tone shaping now, it kind of distracts me, all the options. But the best sound i got with this rig was just using the Diamond comp and the amp, only. Less is usually more.
     
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  18. Resonance129

    Resonance129

    Feb 15, 2011
    Purgatory
    We have a somewhat similar loadout. I'm looking into getting a second K212 to stack on my first one. The single one is great, but as you've mentioned, it's a little difficult hear myself very well on stage with the other instruments (who knows what the audience is hearing in the back of the venue :unsure: ). With my GKMB500 and SCR-DI, the second cab should sound huge and bring me some clarity.

    I hadn't considered the rear porting much, but I don't think it'll be too much of an issue in my case.
     
    Wicked G likes this.
  19. JimChjones

    JimChjones

    Aug 6, 2017
    SE England
    It seems to me odd that in general our 2* or 4* cabs all have the drivers on the same plane. I can't help thinking it goes back to the cheapest way to build a box with drivers in rather than optimum design.

    I sometimes idly dream that what I really want is a 1*15 with something like a 8 inch mid on top of it, and the mid angled moderately upwards so that the cone of best sound dispersion starts more or less parallel with the floor/seated audiences heads and catches my head too. The downside is that the complications of getting a low driver and a mid to play nicely together, what with crossovers, phase, all the other interactions seem way way too much for this amateur to cope with.
     
  20. This Hartke cab has the top 12" and tweeter tilted back... (there's also a 10" version)
    2200-df67d9ca3e2ccb1c618b18cc37b09480.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
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  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
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