If you've read the story of my Bluesman Vintage Deville 2T bass (see my profile pic), you know I went through some stuff to get that bass the way I wanted it. The original bass was made of alder and weighed in at 10lb 1oz. It sounded great, but my shoulder wasn't about to go down that road again. So I called John, the owner at Bluesman Vintage & told him my frustration. He had me send the bass back (at his expense) and he rebuilt it using a more lightweight swamp cypress (very warm & resonant). When I received the bass back, it weighed in at a fit 8lb 1oz. Needless to say, I was ecstatic... until 2 weeks ago when I played out with it. On a strap, the bass was just a bit top-heavy. At 10lb, it was balanced. But at 8lb, I was fighting (drumroll please...) NECK DIVE!!! Now, I've never been vocal about it, but I kind of always assumed neck dive was just some bs somebody made up, because I had never heard of it 'til I came to TB. Well, consider me a convert. Even though my neck dive was relatively slight, it was annoying. So I came home and started searching for lightweight tuning machines. Almost immediately, I found Gotoh Res-o-lite tuners. I picked up a set on Reverb. I weighed them individually and they were a little more than half the weight of the machines on the bass. And with the guidance of John at BMV, I did the whole vinegar thing to age them to match my bass. It worked perfectly. This morning, I reassembled the bass. The tuners look great! The bass is balanced perfectly at the neck plate. And it now weighs in at a meager 7lb 9.5oz. And to make things even better, John also offered to buy the old tuners back from me to help defray my cost for the upgraded machines. That's customer service!! {} {}
nice resolution to a neck dive problem! i've used hipshot ultralites and gotoh carbon-o-lites to resolve the dive but i've never had the pleasure of using the res-o-lites. the carbon-o-lites helped to give me a 6.2 lb. ax! when i was younger (20s-30s) i never had neck dive issues...ever! now i'm 70 and i smell neck dive in the neighboring counties. what happened?
When I did a detail strip and clean on my 78 Jazz, I was amazed at how much the tuners weighed! Without the tuners, the neck was as light as feather. Fortunately, I dont have neck dive but, that much weight on the end of the neck has got to affect the sustain or something. Did you notice any tonal difference after changing your tuners?
Yeah, I made fun of guys who said basses were too heavy a few years ago. Enter a little shoulder pain and now I have a 4” wide strap & I don’t have a bass north of 8.5lb.
Not at all. The mass/size of the tuning machine plates is identical to the heavier/previous machines. I played for a bit after reassembly and it sounded/played just as good as before. I wonder if, say, a Hipshot with a tiny footprint might have had negative effect on the tone or sustain?
Interesting. I would have thought that lighter tuners would allow the neck to vibrate more, hence, more sustain and growl. If they are anything like the Gotohs that I just installed on my Martin HD-28, they are an upgrade for sure!
everybody makes fun...until they don't! none. the physics of the whole concept would actually suggest the opposite effect...if it actually mattered. all things equal + competent parts + competent setup = everything that matters occurs between the nut and the bridge saddles.
When I played it, I wasn’t really paying attention to that. I’ll be mindful at my next practice. If it is an upgrade, that’s a major bonus, since that bass is already amazing!
I changed from Fender-style to Hipshot lightweight paddle tuners - lost .4 lbs and solved neck dive completely. I couldn’t tell any sonic difference.
In the "every little bit helps" category, I also add a short extension to the top horn strap button which also aids in the balance. {}
I changed the stock tuners on my 2004 MIJ Geddy Lee to HipShot UltraLites ad lost 1.0 lbs at the headstock. It’s a MUCH more comfortable bass to play now. The UltraLites are a completely different footprint (much smaller) but I had to do something about my shoulder and neck! I bought the lollypop version and, although the stems are a little shorter, no one knows it’s been modded unless they look at the back of the headstock. I never thought I’d appreciate 1 lb the way I do now .
{} Well, I'm happy for you. Glad you solved your neck dive problem... no, really, I am. But, I have to ask; if you had your bass on a grippy strap, and let go of it; would it try to yank your tucked-in shirt out of your pants, and then pull it off over your head? No? Well, this one (yes, it's mine) can - and has. It's also kinda quick about it, too. And those special order Schaller tuners, at 64 gms each, aren't all that heavy to begin with, either; so even if there were other tuners that would fit the thing, I doubt they would make much difference. Short of hanging a car battery off its butt - or shortening the neck about 9 inches, - it will always dive like a scared U-Boat. I just... live with it. And wear a slippery strap....
{} Nah... I just hold a 12" cast iron skillet out at arms length, 3 times a week, for as long as I can. I try for 3 sets of 10... My right arm kinda looks like Popeye's, but I can hold the stupid thing up for a song or three...
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